A320 CAT III B
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Above the Horizon
A320 CAT III B
During an Autoland in CAT III B conditions, if the ROLL OUT mode does not engage what is the action to be taken?
Does one disconnect the AP and follow the Yaw Bar or carry out a Go Around?
Thanks
Does one disconnect the AP and follow the Yaw Bar or carry out a Go Around?
Thanks
Joined: Mar 2012
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From: Having a margarita on the beach
FCOM says :
DIRECTIONAL CONTROL .................................................. MONITOR/ENSURE
– Monitor directional control, if the rollout is automatic. If rollout guidance is not
satisfactory, immediately disconnect AP and revert to manual directional
control.
With a few meters of RVR and a good back-up from the CM2 pointing out LOC deviations, you will be able to satisfactorily control the rollout on the ground.
Notwithstanding with the above, if You have not started reverse deployment at touch down, go around is always an option.
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From: Spain
As sonicbum explains, by the time CM2 realises ROLLOUT has not engaged, CM1 would most probably have applied reverse thrust. So do not even think about a go around.
In the case CM1 has not applied reverse yet, I would not think of going around neither. If you are not capable of braking the aircraft following the yaw bar, it will be much more difficult to accelerate again the aircraft along the runway at high speed.
In the case CM1 has not applied reverse yet, I would not think of going around neither. If you are not capable of braking the aircraft following the yaw bar, it will be much more difficult to accelerate again the aircraft along the runway at high speed.
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From: N/A
As sonicbum explains, by the time CM2 realises ROLLOUT has not engaged, CM1 would most probably have applied reverse thrust. So do not even think about a go around.
In the case CM1 has not applied reverse yet, I would not think of going around neither. If you are not capable of braking the aircraft following the yaw bar, it will be much more difficult to accelerate again the aircraft along the runway at high speed.
In the case CM1 has not applied reverse yet, I would not think of going around neither. If you are not capable of braking the aircraft following the yaw bar, it will be much more difficult to accelerate again the aircraft along the runway at high speed.
. So, as long as reverser has not been selected I recommend to go around. Automatic roll out was, for an CAT IIIB approach, not planned just for fun.
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From: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: USA
So now you've successfully gone around, and have a moment to breathe. Assuming you needed the rollout capability for the weather, now what? The plane's on the ground. Follow the yaw bar and taxi off the runway.
What's more interesting, is what exactly the AP will do in this scenario. Will it automatically disconnect? I couldn't find any information.
What's more interesting, is what exactly the AP will do in this scenario. Will it automatically disconnect? I couldn't find any information.
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: England
If you are landing in 3B conditions then the aircraft and autopilot system are fail operational.
Regulators can apply operating procedures in different ways, but essentially if the aircraft is below a specified height, alert - height, then the landing can be continued without crew intervention.
In the highest technical category the roll out system will also be fail-op; if a failure occurs then land, stay on the runway.
If the rollout sub system is not fail-op, then the lower integrity should require a higher visibility minima in the procedure to mitigate the possibility of failure; 'see to roll out'.
The technical specification and integrity of the auto-flight system should ensure that the system remains engaged until the same point when the pilot intervenes in normal operation.
However, this would depend largely on the level of system integration; e.g. if fully within the auto-flight computer, or a separate rollout system such as HUD (different minima for each type).
Regulators can apply operating procedures in different ways, but essentially if the aircraft is below a specified height, alert - height, then the landing can be continued without crew intervention.
In the highest technical category the roll out system will also be fail-op; if a failure occurs then land, stay on the runway.
If the rollout sub system is not fail-op, then the lower integrity should require a higher visibility minima in the procedure to mitigate the possibility of failure; 'see to roll out'.
The technical specification and integrity of the auto-flight system should ensure that the system remains engaged until the same point when the pilot intervenes in normal operation.
However, this would depend largely on the level of system integration; e.g. if fully within the auto-flight computer, or a separate rollout system such as HUD (different minima for each type).
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From: Spain
Think about going around. Of course first thing you check is the fuel you have left. If you are landing in a not very busy airport, probably you will have the chance of trying another approach. But imagine doing this in LHR, CDG, MAD...etc. The time it will take ATC being able to vector you for another approach can be quite long with a busy airspace and an airport operating in LVO. You can put yourself in a situation declaring emergency fuel, or diverting, when minutes earlier your aircraft was with the wheels on the ground, but automation was not able to do the rollout itself. Pilots are in the cockpit for a reason, and they are trained to take action when necessary.
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From: N/A
It seems you have not taken my point. If you touch down, reverser will usually be selected within approximately 1 or 2 seconds. Thereafter a go around is not possible and you have to maintain centerline with your own feet.
So if you are in a position to choose between GA or not, your nosewheel will be still in the air and at 0-75 the only thing you will see is white. To continue in this case only by looking at the yaw bar is unprofessional. If I remember correctly, also the Autoland Light flashes, so a GA is mandatory.
So if you are in a position to choose between GA or not, your nosewheel will be still in the air and at 0-75 the only thing you will see is white. To continue in this case only by looking at the yaw bar is unprofessional. If I remember correctly, also the Autoland Light flashes, so a GA is mandatory.
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: England
Whilst pilots check the facts about AutoLand light illuminating or not - remember that the aircraft has landed, 'autoland' has happened, but the system has not engaged rollout submode.
Also consider the generic, world wide advice not to GA after reverse selection. Reverse might not have deployed, but if it has then the risk of asymmetric thrust could be greater than remaining on the runway. *
You cite the lowest possible visibility; these are statistically most unlikely (combine that probability with rollout failure) and even so, the pilot should see small segment of the runway.Operations are often limited by 50m RVR because of fire rescue limitations. Thus as the nose is lowered the effective visibility - visual segment increases and there is benefit from 'streaming' effect; in addition there is more reaction time as speed decreases. Actions would be to use max reverse and max manual braking.
* asymmetric thrust:- https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/app/t...df.php?p=25602
Also consider the generic, world wide advice not to GA after reverse selection. Reverse might not have deployed, but if it has then the risk of asymmetric thrust could be greater than remaining on the runway. *
You cite the lowest possible visibility; these are statistically most unlikely (combine that probability with rollout failure) and even so, the pilot should see small segment of the runway.Operations are often limited by 50m RVR because of fire rescue limitations. Thus as the nose is lowered the effective visibility - visual segment increases and there is benefit from 'streaming' effect; in addition there is more reaction time as speed decreases. Actions would be to use max reverse and max manual braking.
* asymmetric thrust:- https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/app/t...df.php?p=25602
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From: MC80 Home One type Star Cruiser
It seems you have not taken my point. If you touch down, reverser will usually be selected within approximately 1 or 2 seconds. Thereafter a go around is not possible and you have to maintain centerline with your own feet.
So if you are in a position to choose between GA or not, your nosewheel will be still in the air and at 0-75 the only thing you will see is white. To continue in this case only by looking at the yaw bar is unprofessional. If I remember correctly, also the Autoland Light flashes, so a GA is mandatory.
So if you are in a position to choose between GA or not, your nosewheel will be still in the air and at 0-75 the only thing you will see is white. To continue in this case only by looking at the yaw bar is unprofessional. If I remember correctly, also the Autoland Light flashes, so a GA is mandatory.
AT TOUCHDOWN: The flight crew must select reverse thrust immediately after main landing gear touchdown.
By the time that CM2 noticed that roll-out hasn’t engaged, reverse should have already been selected. And in case of a rollout mode failure, the autoland light shouldn’t come on. The aircraft can still land the aircraft. I assume that includes lowering the nose to complete the landing. If the autoland light flashes, there’s something else going on.
AUTOLAND WARNING
With “LAND” or “FLARE” green on the FMA and at least one AP engaged, the AUTOLAND red light appears on the glareshield when the aircraft is below 200 ft RA and one of the following events occurs:
‐ The autopilots are lost, or
- The aircraft gets too far off the beam (LOC or G/S flash on PFD), or
- Loss of LOC signal above 15 ft, or loss of glide signal above 100 ft (transmitter or receivers), or
‐ The difference between both radio altimeter indications is greater than 15 ft, or
‐ The FMGS detects a long flare.
Joined: Aug 2020
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From: Spain
It seems you have not taken my point. If you touch down, reverser will usually be selected within approximately 1 or 2 seconds. Thereafter a go around is not possible and you have to maintain centerline with your own feet.
So if you are in a position to choose between GA or not, your nosewheel will be still in the air and at 0-75 the only thing you will see is white. To continue in this case only by looking at the yaw bar is unprofessional. If I remember correctly, also the Autoland Light flashes, so a GA is mandatory.
So if you are in a position to choose between GA or not, your nosewheel will be still in the air and at 0-75 the only thing you will see is white. To continue in this case only by looking at the yaw bar is unprofessional. If I remember correctly, also the Autoland Light flashes, so a GA is mandatory.
Joined: Aug 2020
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From: Spain
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Wanderlust
Cat3b in 0/75mtr it should not be a problem maintaining a centre line with yaw bar and some visibility in front. Even in GA centre line needs to be maintained manually. In case of excursion it is safer to go off decelerating than during acceleration for a GA.
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From: India
The SOP as per the FCOM for Autoland is that at touchdown :
Roll out mode : check engaged / announce
Both thrust lever : Rev max or Rev idle .
Also, SOP as per OM-A for low visibility procedures states that if performing a CAT 3 B approach, "ROLL OUT" guidance is required
So if after touch down if the ROLL out mode is not engaged, and you see the yaw bar, there is not reason why you shouldn't continue. Note that 3B condition you will have at least 50m of RVR.
s
Roll out mode : check engaged / announce
Both thrust lever : Rev max or Rev idle .
Also, SOP as per OM-A for low visibility procedures states that if performing a CAT 3 B approach, "ROLL OUT" guidance is required
So if after touch down if the ROLL out mode is not engaged, and you see the yaw bar, there is not reason why you shouldn't continue. Note that 3B condition you will have at least 50m of RVR.
s
