Self Flying Airbus
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
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Of course, no one has mentioned the crosswind limits for autoland versus manual landings. Quite a significant difference. And WX avoidance by algorithm? NO thank you!!!
Join Date: Jun 2020
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Back in the seventies, I contacted the local Professional Engineer licensing body about registering as a Computer Engineer.. They replied that there is no such thing.
So I went on to practise as such for forty-five years, eventually passing on my knowledge and techniques as a college professor to younger folk.
A couple of years ago, I met the President of the PE Association at an alumni event. He laughed and said they were still working on that accreditation.
People who design bridges and buildings have to be licensed, but not people who design computer systems that can kill hundreds when they go wrong!
BTW, if you have doubt as to my abilities, I tell people, you should not live within 26 miles of any Nuclear Generating Station where I have worked on computers!
So I went on to practise as such for forty-five years, eventually passing on my knowledge and techniques as a college professor to younger folk.
A couple of years ago, I met the President of the PE Association at an alumni event. He laughed and said they were still working on that accreditation.
People who design bridges and buildings have to be licensed, but not people who design computer systems that can kill hundreds when they go wrong!
BTW, if you have doubt as to my abilities, I tell people, you should not live within 26 miles of any Nuclear Generating Station where I have worked on computers!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
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Easy Street said: "
Well the insurers/underwriters that I know and remember won't be campaigning for it at all. Underwriters have their Names or shareholders that they are responsible to, if they were to take unnecessary or experimental risks they would be sacked at the next board meeting. The premiums they would require to set just to cover manufacturers product liability, passenger legal liability and third party legal liability would be astronomical initially and probably more than airlines or manufacturers are prepared to pay, cheaper to employ pilots, even if most of the systems are fully automated and only require monitoring.
Will the functions of the cabin crew be automated as well? All the safety drills required for any kind of emergency, even something as simple as oxygen masks that fail to deploy and need the CA's biro stuck in the small hole to free them will be both difficult and expensive to automate. Will Cabin Crew be prepared to fly without a human cockpit crew? Better ask the Cabin Crew. I can see the kerfuffle now, if the cabin crew function is automated. Automated PA, "Will the passengers in row 36, seats A to C now go to the vending machine to receive their meal" for these pax to discover the special menu options are not available and there is only chicken or fish left!
Finally, the Elephant in the Room, security. Whatever automated systems and their control are incorporated they will need to be 110% interference proof, as well as the security system designed to protect them and that will include preventing an armed attack by dedicated suicidal terrorists on a remote ground control somewhere along the route.
Far from being reticent over full automation, I’d be surprised if insurers aren’t looking forward to it, if not actively investing in research to help bring it about"
Will the functions of the cabin crew be automated as well? All the safety drills required for any kind of emergency, even something as simple as oxygen masks that fail to deploy and need the CA's biro stuck in the small hole to free them will be both difficult and expensive to automate. Will Cabin Crew be prepared to fly without a human cockpit crew? Better ask the Cabin Crew. I can see the kerfuffle now, if the cabin crew function is automated. Automated PA, "Will the passengers in row 36, seats A to C now go to the vending machine to receive their meal" for these pax to discover the special menu options are not available and there is only chicken or fish left!
Finally, the Elephant in the Room, security. Whatever automated systems and their control are incorporated they will need to be 110% interference proof, as well as the security system designed to protect them and that will include preventing an armed attack by dedicated suicidal terrorists on a remote ground control somewhere along the route.
Join Date: May 2010
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I am sorry but I cannot resist and propose some similarly important questions:
- parachutes for passengers
- circular runways
Being an IT guy I can tell that in forseeable future autonomous plane is as realistic as the above ideas.
Proof - we have just a handful of autonomous metro trains and it does not seem to be popular choice for new developments. Same goes for trains even in remote places.
&
- parachutes for passengers
- circular runways
Being an IT guy I can tell that in forseeable future autonomous plane is as realistic as the above ideas.
Proof - we have just a handful of autonomous metro trains and it does not seem to be popular choice for new developments. Same goes for trains even in remote places.
&
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
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It will happen. It is still a long ways off for passenger flights though.
7th generation fighters will be the start. Fully autonomous probably in about 20 years. Then migrate to cargo operations after another 10-20 years. After that another say 20 years the first autonomous passenger flight. So about 60 years from now is my time frame. So everyone here’s job is safe
7th generation fighters will be the start. Fully autonomous probably in about 20 years. Then migrate to cargo operations after another 10-20 years. After that another say 20 years the first autonomous passenger flight. So about 60 years from now is my time frame. So everyone here’s job is safe
Join Date: Jul 2007
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What is more likely to happen sooner is Single Pilot Operation when everything is automated and the Single Pilot is there for the monitoring rather than the operation. And liaising with Control who have Real Time progress info of the flight to initiate any action deemed appropriate. Long Haul will then require two pilots rather than three or four because the human can not be at the monitoring station (ie cockpit) for too long without a break.
Here we go again with all the tech nerds getting off on the prospect of pilotless airliners. In the 60's it was proved that man could be sent to the moon and returned safely to earth.Some bloke with a vision and the resources of a whole country put the idea out there. Since 1972 (almost 50 years ago) there has not been another attempt. Why? Too expensive and not relevant to society. The same with a pilotless airliner. If it was necessary then it would be done but at the moment Boeing is cocking up a design that is as old as Apollo and Airbus is too busy just trying to survive. Unless it is in an advanced stage of design now then it won't be a concern to the grandchildren of brand new F/O's. Oh yeah there is also the little thing of the C19 pandemic which will make the supply of pilots readily and cheaply available for the next 30 years.
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
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It sure would be a real bummer if some hot shot programmer on a bad day inadvertantly left a backdoor open in the code.
Can you imagine the ransomware claim? What a horrible situation to have to deal with.
I really hope this kind of thing never happens, but last time I built an NPM package (think latest and greatest) I was besotted with all kinds of build messages from saving the whales to donating to hungry programmers.
I'd be much happier having a human up front with an override button to effectively reduce all this autonomous effort to zero when needed.
Can you imagine the ransomware claim? What a horrible situation to have to deal with.
I really hope this kind of thing never happens, but last time I built an NPM package (think latest and greatest) I was besotted with all kinds of build messages from saving the whales to donating to hungry programmers.
I'd be much happier having a human up front with an override button to effectively reduce all this autonomous effort to zero when needed.
I am sorry but I cannot resist and propose some similarly important questions:
- parachutes for passengers
- circular runways
Being an IT guy I can tell that in forseeable future autonomous plane is as realistic as the above ideas.
Proof - we have just a handful of autonomous metro trains and it does not seem to be popular choice for new developments. Same goes for trains even in remote places.&
- parachutes for passengers
- circular runways
Being an IT guy I can tell that in forseeable future autonomous plane is as realistic as the above ideas.
Proof - we have just a handful of autonomous metro trains and it does not seem to be popular choice for new developments. Same goes for trains even in remote places.&
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
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The integration of dozens of different systems to achieve that is incredible and an order of magnitude higher than what would be required to achieve autonomous flight
What ever happened to the automated aircraft that had a single pilot and a dog for crew . The Pilots job was to feed the dog and the dogs job was to bite the pilot if he touched anything . Sorry I could not find the cartoon ,it was over thirty years ago . It might not be on the Internet 
What ever happened to the automated aircraft that had a single pilot and a dog for crew . The Pilots job was to feed the dog and the dogs job was to bite the pilot if he touched anything . Sorry I could not find the cartoon ,it was over thirty years ago . It might not be on the Internet
Let sleeping dogs lie
So who selects (breeds) the dog; trains it, checks its health.
Will the training be sufficient for all circumstances.
What happens if the dog dies.
Let sleeping dogs lie.
Quips in these instances, reflect our un-wiliness or inability to engage with the issue, to look ahead, consider pros and cons, and debate alternative solutions - if there are any at all.
Some current operations suggest that this type of system already exists. Hard-line inbred safety concepts and constrained training like a dog; the dog being enforcing tools, culture, SOPs, adverse investigations, or at least cold tea, no biscuits.
The Airbus research is opportunity for us to consider the future; - a future which we might be able to influence with understanding, opposed to having to accept someone else's view, not wishing to think about the issues.
Will the training be sufficient for all circumstances.
What happens if the dog dies.
Let sleeping dogs lie.
Quips in these instances, reflect our un-wiliness or inability to engage with the issue, to look ahead, consider pros and cons, and debate alternative solutions - if there are any at all.
Some current operations suggest that this type of system already exists. Hard-line inbred safety concepts and constrained training like a dog; the dog being enforcing tools, culture, SOPs, adverse investigations, or at least cold tea, no biscuits.
The Airbus research is opportunity for us to consider the future; - a future which we might be able to influence with understanding, opposed to having to accept someone else's view, not wishing to think about the issues.
People who've never flown an A320 or done the 3rd CB reset of the day, waxing lyrical about autonomous A320s. Brilliant.
Imagine having to push the "crash into the ocean" button on a runaway airbus.
There have been a few improvements in the electronics/automation arena since then
You do know that the A320 was designed nearly 40 years ago, right?
There have been a few improvements in the electronics/automation arena since then
There have been a few improvements in the electronics/automation arena since then
I would go even further and say people who have never flown an aeroplane waxing lyrical about autonomous A320's. For those who like to cite how wonderfully efficient the trains are in Western Australia have alook at this. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-...-says/10893206
Imagine having to push the "crash into the ocean" button on a runaway airbus.
Imagine having to push the "crash into the ocean" button on a runaway airbus.