Del Prado

Passenger with Ryanair today and after boarding I noticed we were refuelling.
Seat belt signs were off but no announcement was made and doors weren’t (continuously) manned.

Is that normal SOPs these days? I’ve often been asked to leave seatbelt unfastened while refuelling previously.

pineteam

In our SOP, the captain must inform the CFA that passengers boarding will be done while refueling and asked her to arm door 4L (A320). Cabin crew will make announcement to the passengers.
The cockpit crew will keep the seat belt sign off and inform the maintenance. The maintenance has to be connected with headset on until refueling is completed.

Check Airman

The rules vary from company to company. Last company, a pilot had to be on board. Current company has no such restriction.

Del Prado

Interesting, thanks. I’m surprised it’s down to company policy rather than FAA/EASA.

Pineteam, your company’s SOP is what is was expecting.

retired guy

In Europe it’s an EASA rule. If anyone here knows of an EU airline that permits refuelling without a pilot being on the flight deck in communication with a “refuelling supervisor” by intercom I would be glad to hear of it. An airline near me is trying to comply with that one! It’s not easy.
R Guy
I seem to remember it came in when a refueller was cremated and plane
endangered when the fuel pipe leaked and fire started and nobody noticed.

retired guy

The problem arises too that LCCs maybe, won’t have a ground engineer just hanging around for 20 minutes just to observe refuelling. Since that person has to be “qualified “ it can mean that the walk around pilot during transit has to do that.

Staff duties and responsibilities

Absolute authority for the decision to refuel with passengers on board must reside with the aircraft commander. They should ensure that either they or their explicitly designated representative remains on the flight deck throughout the time when refuelling with passengers on board is occurring. Teamwork is essential for normal safety standards to be maintained during such refuelling and there are a number of things that the personnel involved should be doing to achieve this:

• The aircraft commander or his specifically authorised representative present in the flight deck should:
  • Where possible, establish direct communication with any ground engineer or ramp crew by interphone and if not possible agree alternative means
  • Inform the senior cabin crew member prior to the commencement and after the completion of refuelling
  • Keep watch for any interphone or visual alert of fire or risk of fire from the person supervising the refuelling on their behalf
  • Be prepared to order passenger evacuation if necessary
• The designated dispatch supervisorshould satisfy themselves that:
  • at least one pilot is present in the flight deck, all cabin crew are at their stations and any ground engineer required to be present is aware and appropriately positioned
  • The area beneath exits intended for emergency evacuation is and remains clear
  • The fire service has been advised
  • Any passenger boarding / disembarkation is achieved in a controlled manner
• The ground engineer (or the equivalent supervisor of refuelling externally) should:
  • Ensure that a means of communication with the flight crew in any emergency has been agreed
  • Have agreed how communications with the pilot(s) on the flight deck will be achieved in an emergency
  • Ensure that the aircraft commander or his representative in the flight deck is made aware of the commencement and completion of refuelling
  • Immediately notify the pilot(s) present in the flight deck if a fire occurs or the risk of one is high
  • If an emergency evacuation is required, indicate to the pilot(s) present in the flight deck that exits that may be used are clear of obstructions
  • Ensure that refuelling is stopped if such a request is made by one of the flight crew.
• The cabin crew should:
  • Inform passengers that smoking is not permitted and ensure that the "NO SMOKING" signs are on.
  • Inform passengers to unfasten (or not to fasten if boarding) their seat belts and check that the "FASTEN SEAT BELT" signs are off.
  • Check that all emergency exits are clear of internal obstructions and appear to be clear of external ones.
  • Ensure that the "EXIT" signs are all illuminated.
  • Ensure that ground servicing (e.g. catering or cleaning) cannot create a hazard, or delay an emergency evacuation.

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/...sponsibilities

Check Airman

Interesting. I’d think that a pilot’s time would be better spent in the cockpit than watching the fuelling process though.

meleagertoo

It is. Overseeing refuelling on a loco turnaround is often simply impossible and imo completely pointless.
Not the 'rules' above are not in fact rules at all, but guidelines.

The Aircraft Commander, should....where possible

The ground engineer (or the equivalent supervisor of refuelling externally) should:

Should, not must.
Where possible...

Thus these itams are advisory, not mandatory but it is clear that one would have questions to answer in the event of an unnoticed spillage or a fire if they were not complied with.

In my recent loco it was assumed that the despatcher was responsible for this duty as it was impossible for turnarounds to be achieved if flight deck wasted their time on it.

Vessbot

At my (US) airline, the only rule is that the main door must be open.

cafesolo

Cafesolo
When I started flying training in the RAF,in1953,the rule was simple: NO pax on board during refueling. Up to leaving in 1979 I did not hear of this rule being changed,other than for bed-bound casevacs,when the decision would be taken jointly with the senior medic and the captain.

EcamSurprise

My EU LCC airline requires a pilot to be in the RHS to be able to have visual contact with the fueler. Various CAA bodies have a habit of waving at you from under the Rh window to see if you notice.

We also have a big red page on the QRH which says “refueling in progress” to be displayed on the center pedestal.

wiggy

That’s as may have been true, but we are are typically looking at perhaps a 1 hr 45 minute turnaround on a wide body....if you have to wait until you’ve perhaps got 100 tonnes plus (plus) of fuel on board before beginning to board thick end of 300 or 400 passengers ...well I’ll let you draw your own conclusions.

Our SOPs are very rigid with regard to the likes of chain of command, cabin crew location and doors, jetties, stairs etc during refuelling but there is no requirement for one of the flight crew to directly supervise the operation.

FullWings

Also, you have to look at the level of risk. Is pumping kerosene onto an aircraft incredibly dangerous, compared to much of what goes on in aviation? The worst I’ve heard of is a fuel spillage that required disembarkation and cleanup. We did have an accident a long time ago where the refueller was killed but that was because they mis-attached the hose on an aircraft that had just arrived on stand: the fuel misted out onto the engine which had been shut down less than a minute before and made a mini fireball. I don’t think the doors had even been opened to let the pax off...

Skyjob

Taken from "Consoldiated AMC & GM to Annex IV(Part-CAT)CAT.OP.MPA - AMC1 CAT.OP.MPA.195 Refuelling/defuelling with passengers embarking, on board or disembarking":

OPERATIONAL PROCEDURES —GENERAL
(a) When refuelling/defuelling with passengers on board, ground servicing activities and work inside the aircraft, such as catering and cleaning, should be conducted in such a manner that they do not create a hazard and allow emergency evacuation to take place through those aisles and exits intended for emergency evacuation.
(b) The deployment of integral aircraft stairs or the opening of emergency exits as a prerequisite to refuelling is not necessarily required.

OPERATIONAL PROCEDURES —AEROPLANES
(c) Operational procedures should specify that at least the following precautions are taken:

1. one qualified person should remain at a specified location during fuelling operations with passengers on board. This qualified person should be capable of handling emergency procedures concerning fire protection and firefighting, handling communications, and initiating and directing an evacuation;
2. two-way communication should be established and should remain available by the aeroplane's inter-communication system or other suitable means between the ground crew supervising the refuelling and the qualified personnel on board the aeroplane; the involved personnel should remain within easy reach of the system of communication;
3. crew, personnel and passengers should be warned that re/defuelling will take place;
4. ‘Fasten Seat Belts’ signs should be off;
5. ‘NO SMOKING’ signs should be on, together with interior lighting to enable emergency exits to be identified;
6. passengers should be instructed to unfasten their seat belts and refrain from smoking;
7. the minimum required number of cabin crew should be on board and be prepared for an immediate emergency evacuation;
8. if the presence of fuel vapour is detected inside the aeroplane, or any other hazard arises during re/defuelling, fuelling should be stopped immediately;
9. the ground area beneath the exits intended for emergency evacuation and slide deployment areas should be kept clear at doors where stairs are not in position for use in the event of evacuation; and
10. provision is made for a safe and rapid evacuation.

Does not rseem to require cabin crew to be manning doors, and any announcement during this time would be made during boarding PA afaik

the_stranger

In my European legacy airline, there does not have to be a pilot on the flightdeck while fueling.

However, there must be contact between the purser and fueler via portophone.

In (rare) cases the plane is being fueled and boarded without cockpit crew onboard (but with that mentioned portophone contact).

ShyTorque

Cafesolo, no doubt most, if not all of the aircraft you were involved with were powered by AVGAS, not the far less flammable JetA1 of today. I'm not in a position to check the regs, but I do know that when I took my professional licence exams, the rules said acceptable for JetA1, not so for AVGAS.

These days, turbine powered helicopters are even allowed to carry out rotors running refuels, subject to suitable precautions being taken.

Denti

There is actually a procedure in the Airbus A320 FCOM for refuelling with one engine running as well. However, not with passengers on board in that case of course.

retired guy

Hi Skyjob
At an airline not far from you this requires a pilot to leave the flight deck to become the "qualified supervisor". There being nobody else on the ground except the guys loading baggage and the refueller himself.
That pilot must plug in and communicate with the other pilot on the flight deck by inter phone. Or perhaps agreed visual hand signals.
The word "should" as written in the AMC EASA approved document is regarded as "will" since in an accident nobody is going to buy that the word "should" is a reasonable cause for non compliance. As in "should remain at a specified location during fuelling operations with passengers on board"
Certainly the Court would not do so when awarding 500 million in damages.
So I am asking guys who fly with "other airlines" that seem to not need to comply with the above - how do you do it?
By the way I fully agree that this is utter nonsense - but here we are!

Best wishes
R Guy

the_stranger

The rules don't specify any of the concerned parties have to be flightdeck crew. Also, it does not exclude the fueler being the supervisor himself.

Like I already posted, we let the fueler communicate directly with the senior purser, which has the qualifications mentioned in those rules you post.

He/she is at a specified place (door 12) and is able to start an evacuation is required.

Skyjob

Thanks for reply R Guy, indeed I am familiar with said airline, also familiar with some of the alternative procedures embraced by others.
OP asked specifically for SOP in Ryanair and to that extent the answer clearly must be a yes, there is such a SOP in place.
Asking 189 people during boarding to leave seatbelt unfastened at the door when they enter will result in a majority not complying.
In theory passengers are required to follow CC instructions, which may include occasional announcements during boarding & fueling in progress to leave seatbelt unfastened.
Granted, some dialects make it impossible t understand what is being said over the PA system, but equally the belts illumination is a reminder the passengers there is no requirement to have their belts fastened.
Each airline operates differently, each airline has their own SOP, each airline follows the rules as I copied them for reference