Accel or Secure A320

[Roguedent]

Dear All,

Looking for some experience and/or help a new person to the A320 Airbus way.

For an engine failure (fire) after rotate, let’s say for arguments sake 1500 (so the end of the take off segment) and you have a Max Accel Hgt calculated as 2400 combined with an EOSID, what is the correct interpretation of the book that says the ‘acceleration should be delayed to secure the engine’. In the fire case this is when the second shot is put in. If you are passing 2380’, should you level, accelerate and clean up, thus stopping the ECAM and not securing?

AP in easier to manipulate the FCU for the EOSID and as the ECAM is started the PF has the radios, whilst the other chap Secures the engine, but Manual Flying is a lot of interrupting, so stopping the other guy quickly securing the engine and thus you have to be quick to get it all done before you reach the max Accel hgt (10 mins of ‘take off’ power)

The harsh answer is Be better

Thanks in advance.

[Roj approved]

Normally, Delay the level off and acceleration off engine Secure, i.e. 2nd bottle.

I'm not really sure of the Max Accel Ht at 2400ft? is this a OESID requirement?

The FTCM talks about a Max Accel Ht, which is 10 mins OEI (PR-AEP-ENG p10/24) which you mentioned. So did you calculate that as the max height you would gain from a failure at V1? Because if you have a failure at 1500ft, then that won't really be relevant. The time remaining should give you enough time to secure the engine then level off to accelerate. (its 10mins at MCT or 5mins at TOGA, 10mins if OEI)

Does that make sense?

[RUMBEAR]

I think the concept of maximum acceleration altitude needs to be understood. I believe it’s to ensure that the 10min limitation of take-off thrust is not exceeded should a failure occurs at V1. The time is the limit while the altitude is one way of ensureing the time limit is not exceeded.

So if you have a failure at 1500’ and the maximum EO acceleration altitude is 2400’, then I don’t see any problem with accelerating above 2400’ providing the 10min at take-off thrust is not exceeded.

We previously used paper take off performance chart which included a max EO acceleration altitude. However we now use Flysmart EFB software and haven’t seen any indication of maximum EO acceleration altitude within this data.

[Denti]

There is a maximum EO acceleration in the flysmart EFB software of course. Check the "more" button on the windows software or swipe to the third screen on the iPad.

[Roj approved]

Hi Roguedent and Boyington,

Are you guys on the same Type rating course?

you've both asked the same question slightly differently. maybe time to talk to your instructor, to make sure you really nail down the fundamentals of this and all the Abnormals

A320 Engine Fail

[speedbird787]

In our company thrust reduction is at 400, acceleration is at 800 above aerodrome level ....So if the engine fails at say 1000 ft ....By now your Thrust levers are already at CLB gate .If you have passed 1500 ft just select MCT there is no need of TOGA

[Roguedent]

Thanks to everyone,

Not on the same course. Using Fly smart. THR RED/ACC 1500 standard, EO ACC 1500 STD It gives a Max Accel HEIGHT. My question, is that the book is great for a V1 cut, as you have plenty of time to talk to ATC, get the EOSID going and then secure then engine. I am just trying to see if I have missed something if there is a ENG FIRE before the start of the second segment, so in this case at 1400-1499ft. With a Fly smart max Accel alt, your perf is worked out as this is max you can delay to achieve the 10mins at take off power (it doesn't say TOGA in the book). If you've had to Start the ECAM, Stop the ECAM straight away to talk to ATC and get on the EOSID, continued ECAM whilst PF is navigating to the EOSID, if the PM hasn't managed to get the second shot in an ENG fire and in this case you have 1000-900ft to do all this, should you V/S zero and accel at the max accel height , whilst still allowing the PM to secure the engine. This can work if the AP is in, but I think the workload would be tested if hand flying.

I've asked a couple of instructors and the answer hasn't been the same, so hence why I am trying to see if anyone has a gem from Airbus, as the company hasn't been using flysmart long

[pineteam]

There is not one single way to deal with an EFATO. The aim of the game is to keep the aircraft on a safe flight path and securing the correct engine in a timely manner. The FCTM provides guidance how to handle an EFATO but it does not cover all possible scenarios. Let’s say for instance if you initial altitude is 2000 feet and you have engine fire at 1000 feet during climb, surely, you will have to stop Ecam at “ALT*”even if engine is not secured to pull speed and put on MCT detent or clean up the plane and continue Ecam. Remember it’s always Aviate, Navigate and Communicate before Ecam actions. Also if you are doing an EOSID (eg climbing on runway heading), remember to continue climbing until at least to MSA and inform ATC accordingly or request radar vector.

[Escape Path]

If you have climbed above THR RED (hence setting thrust at climb), the max eo alt restriction is removed as you're no longer at takeoff power (flex or TOGA). Keep climbing until securing the engine (unless there's a case like the one pineteam has exposed), level off, clean up, continue ecam/climb to desired altitude

[airflirt]

Max accel alt is calculated with engine failure @V1 with TOGA/Flex. This means that in case of engine failure in 2nd segment, chances of busting 10 min limit are remote. BUT, it is rather critical in hot and high airfields like VNKT. Hence, follow the SOP to secure the engine before accelerating. It is essential to make the aircraft safe to fly. Hence good CRM and SOP required.