Boeing 777 loses wing panel over Osaka
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Wingham NSW Australia
Aircraft Maintenance in Japan
That makes 4 panel incidents within the space of a month for aircraft flying out of or to Japan.
It seems to me that this has got to be more than a coincidence. Someone needs to audit the maintenance being conducted in Japan. 4 panels in a month is a public safety threat - Tokyo is EXTREMELY densely populated, it is a miracle that this did not kill somebody.
It seems to me that this has got to be more than a coincidence. Someone needs to audit the maintenance being conducted in Japan. 4 panels in a month is a public safety threat - Tokyo is EXTREMELY densely populated, it is a miracle that this did not kill somebody.
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: Tokyo
Like I said, it could be a coincidence, but 4 panels falling to the ground in the space of a month is rather excessive, do you not agree?
My first thoughts were that poor Chinese maintenance was responsible for the dual 767 panel departure issue, but now after the KLM panel issue, I have started to wonder.
I think it is better to be safe than sorry.
I do think that Japanese people take more pride in their work than any other nation on earth, and maintenance in Japan is probably above average quality. However, due to cultural issues there are a lot of potential problems which can occur even if the maintenance people believe they are doing the right thing.
Again, it could just be coincidence, but 4 structural panel failures in the space of a month warrants investigation IMO.
I'm not trying to lay blame here. I just think that we all deserve to fly on safe aircraft and if there is something wrong with maintenance procedures we should find it ASAP. Japanese people have an incredibly strong work ethic but it can work against safety if the procedure is wrong or improperly instructed.
I believe fatigue is a very overlooked factor in Japan, especially in maintenance where regulations are basically non existent, so I believe this is worth investigating, even if only slightly. Again, not trying to lay blame here, please just understand that Tokyo is an extremely densely populated area and we cannot afford to have panels falling from the sky like this. We have enough problems with iced up aircraft shedding ice over the city since the new routing has been under consideration (An absolutely horrible idea imo). If the problem lies here in Japan, it should be investigated and a solution found pronto.
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Oz
It's going to be an interesting insurance claim form.
Make of other vehicle involved..........Boeing 777.
Your speed at the time of the incident.......60 kph.
Other vehicles speed at time of incident.......900 kph.
Location.....above 10,000 feet.
Did other driver stop to exchange details: No
Does that qualify as leaving the scene of the accident without exchanging details.
Make of other vehicle involved..........Boeing 777.
Your speed at the time of the incident.......60 kph.
Other vehicles speed at time of incident.......900 kph.
Location.....above 10,000 feet.
Did other driver stop to exchange details: No
Does that qualify as leaving the scene of the accident without exchanging details.
Joined: May 2011
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From: Hampshire
DaveReid: What about the possibility of the wrong screws being fitted? That is what happened with the BA BAC 1-11 many moons ago.
As for the ANA 767 nitrogen bottle; when does an explosion become a leak?
As for the ANA 767 nitrogen bottle; when does an explosion become a leak?
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From: Reading, UK
I believe I may have mentioned that possibility, and drawn the parallel:
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From: New Hampshire
Since we don't have stats from the rest of the world, we have a choice:
1) The confidence level that there is something about Japan and/or this past month that adversely affects panels is very high (>99%).
2) Or, there are many, many panels falling from planes around the world.
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From: PA
As for the ANA 767 nitrogen bottle; when does an explosion become a leak?
2) Or, there are many, many panels falling from planes around the world.
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Japan
Many planes into a small area, and Japan is quite efficient at picking up and reporting on events like this, especially when they are already jittery re US military flights overhead.
Joined: Aug 2013
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From: PA
More panels missing....
Earlier this month, plastic panels for storing a plane's emergency slide fell to the ground from an ANA passenger plane on two occasions -- along flight paths to Narita Airport -- on Sept. 7 and 8, respectively. The panel that fell on Sept. 7 was confirmed to have been the one found at the steel factory but the one that dropped on Sept. 8 still remains missing.
Unclear if this was from the same aircraft.
It also appears that the missing panels were not noticed, as previous articles stated the panel was traced back to the aircraft.?
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles...0m/0na/012000c
Looks like the most profitible business arm of Boeing is replacement panels...
EDIT:
TOKYO
Part of a fuselage panel on an All Nippon Airways (ANA) aircraft fell off the same plane on two consecutive days, the airline said Friday.
At around 7 p.m. on Thursday, Flight 936, a Boeing 767 operated by ANA, landed at Narita International Airport from Xiamen City, China. During the post-flight maintenance inspection, it was discovered that a reinforced plastic panel attached to the fuselage near the left wing had fallen off during the flight, Fuji TV reported. The panel measured 135 by 60 cms and weighed about three kilograms. The panel was replaced.
On Friday at around 5:20 p.m., the same plane arrived at Narita airport from Xiamen City, China, after which it was discovered that the new panel had also fallen off.
The detached panels in the two consecutive incidents have not been located and ANA said it does not know at what point in the flights they fell off.
now, about the liability......
Earlier this month, plastic panels for storing a plane's emergency slide fell to the ground from an ANA passenger plane on two occasions -- along flight paths to Narita Airport -- on Sept. 7 and 8, respectively. The panel that fell on Sept. 7 was confirmed to have been the one found at the steel factory but the one that dropped on Sept. 8 still remains missing.
Unclear if this was from the same aircraft.
It also appears that the missing panels were not noticed, as previous articles stated the panel was traced back to the aircraft.?https://mainichi.jp/english/articles...0m/0na/012000c
Looks like the most profitible business arm of Boeing is replacement panels...
EDIT:
TOKYO
Part of a fuselage panel on an All Nippon Airways (ANA) aircraft fell off the same plane on two consecutive days, the airline said Friday.
At around 7 p.m. on Thursday, Flight 936, a Boeing 767 operated by ANA, landed at Narita International Airport from Xiamen City, China. During the post-flight maintenance inspection, it was discovered that a reinforced plastic panel attached to the fuselage near the left wing had fallen off during the flight, Fuji TV reported. The panel measured 135 by 60 cms and weighed about three kilograms. The panel was replaced.
On Friday at around 5:20 p.m., the same plane arrived at Narita airport from Xiamen City, China, after which it was discovered that the new panel had also fallen off.
The detached panels in the two consecutive incidents have not been located and ANA said it does not know at what point in the flights they fell off.
now, about the liability......
Last edited by underfire; 6th October 2017 at 10:55.
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: what U.S. calls ´old Europe´
Finally a bit like BA 5390, wrong length of attach bolts used, additional stress on the attach bracket, braked failed, panel departed.
Japanese preliminary report
Japanese preliminary report
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From: Texas
Narita has a procedure for reporting Parts Departing Aircraft (PDA) reports.
"In order to secure the safety of aircraft operations and to rectify the issues of objects falling from aircraft operating in the vicinity of Narita Intl Airport, airline operators are required to notify the NAA Ramp Control Office of any "PARTS DEPARTING AIRCRAFT" from flights to/from Narita Intl Airport, without delay. This information will be shared by relevant parties in order to prevent recurrence of such."
"In order to secure the safety of aircraft operations and to rectify the issues of objects falling from aircraft operating in the vicinity of Narita Intl Airport, airline operators are required to notify the NAA Ramp Control Office of any "PARTS DEPARTING AIRCRAFT" from flights to/from Narita Intl Airport, without delay. This information will be shared by relevant parties in order to prevent recurrence of such."
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Japan
And so they come raining down...
https://japantoday.com/category/nati...ight-to-narita
https://japantoday.com/category/nati...ight-to-narita
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 51
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From: Tokyo
Something weird is going on in Japan, Korea and China.
I do not believe it is a coincidence any longer. That makes about 5 or 6 mysterious panel failures from aircraft entering or departing Japan in the space of 2-3 months.
Maintenance staff in one of these countries is causing these problems. It could be incompetence, lack of training or malice, but something is happening to cause these panels to fall so frequently. Investigation ought to be mandatory. The Japanese government is dragging its feet as usual. Sloth. Sooner or later a panel is going to find its way into the wing or a stabilizer and kill the entire aircraft.
Whatever is causing this needs to be found pronto.
I do not believe it is a coincidence any longer. That makes about 5 or 6 mysterious panel failures from aircraft entering or departing Japan in the space of 2-3 months.
Maintenance staff in one of these countries is causing these problems. It could be incompetence, lack of training or malice, but something is happening to cause these panels to fall so frequently. Investigation ought to be mandatory. The Japanese government is dragging its feet as usual. Sloth. Sooner or later a panel is going to find its way into the wing or a stabilizer and kill the entire aircraft.
Whatever is causing this needs to be found pronto.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,723
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From: Reading, UK
Unless you have evidence that the panels in question had been disturbed on a turnround or maintenance in Japan (the KLM 777 almost certainly wasn't) then that's not a conclusion that can be justified based on what we know so far.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 1
From: Florida
Something weird is going on in Japan, Korea and China.
I do not believe it is a coincidence any longer. That makes about 5 or 6 mysterious panel failures from aircraft entering or departing Japan in the space of 2-3 months.
Maintenance staff in one of these countries is causing these problems. It could be incompetence, lack of training or malice, but something is happening to cause these panels to fall so frequently. Investigation ought to be mandatory. The Japanese government is dragging its feet as usual. Sloth. Sooner or later a panel is going to find its way into the wing or a stabilizer and kill the entire aircraft.
Whatever is causing this needs to be found pronto.
I do not believe it is a coincidence any longer. That makes about 5 or 6 mysterious panel failures from aircraft entering or departing Japan in the space of 2-3 months.
Maintenance staff in one of these countries is causing these problems. It could be incompetence, lack of training or malice, but something is happening to cause these panels to fall so frequently. Investigation ought to be mandatory. The Japanese government is dragging its feet as usual. Sloth. Sooner or later a panel is going to find its way into the wing or a stabilizer and kill the entire aircraft.
Whatever is causing this needs to be found pronto.
Just as likely that it is related to overall occurrence rate and the likelihood of finding such parts in open fields.
I've seen cases where parts were accidently found by hunters deep in the woods many years later. Of course no airline would claim them. On the other side of the coin there were internal reports in airlines citing missing parts over the years.
Last edited by lomapaseo; 22nd November 2017 at 02:35. Reason: Forgot the link
Joined: Nov 2011
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
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From: Japan
More aggro here in Okinawa. Thank goodness it probably wasn't an Osprey.
https://japantoday.com/category/nati...kinawa-nursery
https://japantoday.com/category/nati...kinawa-nursery