FBW question
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Uh... Where was I?
Maybe, but I think they were incapacitated, otherwise, the other pilot would have prompted the PF to pitch down. You don't just sit there silent while such a mess is going on. They lost their ability to manage the situation.
In the Boeing they would probably have pulled both together from the yoke when the other pilot noticed that the PF had difficulties in pulling.
In the Boeing they would probably have pulled both together from the yoke when the other pilot noticed that the PF had difficulties in pulling.
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: W of 30W
Originally Posted by M2002
In the Boeing they would probably have pulled both together from the yoke when the other pilot noticed that the PF had difficulties in pulling.
Never he or the captain realized the right seater was maintaining full back stick for a 30 sec period.
They had lost confidence in the FCS to the point to shut down some computers.
When the left hand has no idea what the right one is doing ...
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From: W of 30W
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: UK
Hold up - that's not proof, those are two of your own posts in which you seem to have derived your own theory based on your interpretation of flight surface deflection.
To the best of my knowledge there's nothing in the DFDR/CVR evidence which explicitly suggests any of the FCCs were turned off. Without either of those as supporting evidence, it must be considered as a strong possibility that your suggested disabling of FCCs did not in fact happen.
[EDIT : Some discussion went on on the next page of the thread - AZR wondered if the PRIM1/SEC1 FAULT messages tallied with the CVR (albeit very late in the sequence and not as a consequence of following any kind of procedure). I guess the question for me is whether manually turning them off would result in a FAULT ECAM message or whether it would say something different.]
[EDIT 2 : In fact, I'll quote AlphaZuluRomeo's response:
Even that interpretation is vague enough to raise questions. If the PNF wanted to "try" something, was it simply turning PRIM1 and SEC1 off, or did he mean to attempt a reset (i.e. switch them off and back on)? In any case, all of this happened well after 02:12:30, which is the probable last timestamp in which recovery might have been possible given the aircraft's scenario.
To the best of my knowledge there's nothing in the DFDR/CVR evidence which explicitly suggests any of the FCCs were turned off. Without either of those as supporting evidence, it must be considered as a strong possibility that your suggested disabling of FCCs did not in fact happen.
[EDIT : Some discussion went on on the next page of the thread - AZR wondered if the PRIM1/SEC1 FAULT messages tallied with the CVR (albeit very late in the sequence and not as a consequence of following any kind of procedure). I guess the question for me is whether manually turning them off would result in a FAULT ECAM message or whether it would say something different.]
[EDIT 2 : In fact, I'll quote AlphaZuluRomeo's response:
2 h 13 min 28,2
PNF : essaye de trouver ce que tu peux faire avec tes commandes là-haut (my note: the PRIM/SEC commands are on the overhead panel)
2 h 13 min 30,4
PNF : les primaires et cetera (my note: "primaires etc." may refer to the PRIMary and other computers)
CPT : (* fera rien)
2 h 13 min 31,5
CPT : on (fera /verra) rien
And then:
2 h 13 min 45 F/CTL PRIM 1 FAULT
2 h 13 min 51 F/CTL SEC 1 FAULT
...
The transcript show the PNF to want to "try" something with the "primary" (computers?) then the captain answering it will be no use, then the PRIM1 & SEC1 to be switched OFF.
PNF : essaye de trouver ce que tu peux faire avec tes commandes là-haut (my note: the PRIM/SEC commands are on the overhead panel)
2 h 13 min 30,4
PNF : les primaires et cetera (my note: "primaires etc." may refer to the PRIMary and other computers)
CPT : (* fera rien)
2 h 13 min 31,5
CPT : on (fera /verra) rien
And then:
2 h 13 min 45 F/CTL PRIM 1 FAULT
2 h 13 min 51 F/CTL SEC 1 FAULT
...
The transcript show the PNF to want to "try" something with the "primary" (computers?) then the captain answering it will be no use, then the PRIM1 & SEC1 to be switched OFF.
Last edited by DozyWannabe; 28th January 2015 at 22:41.
Joined: Jun 2011
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From: Devonshire
"10,000 ft."
Was this said as a matter of routine... Or with surprise, when cruising over the Atlantic ? It appears to be the first recognition of the direction of travel recorded on the DVD.
No comment that the THS was only moving in one direction, NU, steadily. Would this be likely, when the aircraft would normally be in nearlv level flight.
I was a newby Second Officer, doing "my hour" of hand flying at night, as the A/P was u/s. I flew into an unseen Cb. The Captain told me to "Fly reasonably straight and reasonably level." Which I did. ( We had heard of someone who had tried something else with bad effect.)
Rain soaked through the unpressurised windscreen and wet my knees.
(Radar did not come, for me, for a dozen more years.)
Was this said as a matter of routine... Or with surprise, when cruising over the Atlantic ? It appears to be the first recognition of the direction of travel recorded on the DVD.
No comment that the THS was only moving in one direction, NU, steadily. Would this be likely, when the aircraft would normally be in nearlv level flight.
I was a newby Second Officer, doing "my hour" of hand flying at night, as the A/P was u/s. I flew into an unseen Cb. The Captain told me to "Fly reasonably straight and reasonably level." Which I did. ( We had heard of someone who had tried something else with bad effect.)
Rain soaked through the unpressurised windscreen and wet my knees.
(Radar did not come, for me, for a dozen more years.)
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From: Around the World
DZ wrote
Not really, in fact but ....
2012_ISASI_Airbus_presentations.pdf ( link )
What computers did they "turn off"? to the best of my knowledge, there's no evidence of that...
27 F/CTL PRIM 1 FAULT 2:13
27 F/CTL SEC 1 FAULT 2:13
----> Flight controls computers set OFF or reset
27 F/CTL SEC 1 FAULT 2:13
----> Flight controls computers set OFF or reset
