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737 Max cockpit upgrades

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737 Max cockpit upgrades

Old 16th Jul 2014, 08:53
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737 Max cockpit upgrades

Reading into the 737 Max "Upgrade" I don't see a lot of things that will provide comfort or ease of operation to the flight crew. The 737 has always been an ergonomic disaster as far as the cockpit goes with the positioning of switches and gauges being an after thought in most cases. The original cockpit layout is almost 50 years old. I understand and appreciate the desire to maintain cockpit commonality (90% of which can be achieved simply by putting the displays and primary knobs/dials in the same place) but isn't it shocking that Boeing refuse to bring the design into the 21st century as far as ergonomics and comfort go?

I think Monarch flight crew will see it as a massive backwards step when they are doing a 10 hour LGW-SSH-LGW
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Old 16th Jul 2014, 14:00
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You can partially blame big Boeing customers with negotiating leverage like Southwest in the States. As an example, SWA evidently lobbied very hard to maintain the overhead panel design, among other things, for years. Like many airlines, SWA continues to operate older 300s as well as newer 800s in the same fleet.

Monarch pilots should appreciate their wider Airbus flight decks and sidesticks while they can... Even the C-Series (CS300) looks to provide a more ergonomic flight deck when compared with the 800/MAX. But when has pilot comfort ever been a consideration in fleet negotiations? Never has and never will.
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Old 16th Jul 2014, 15:40
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Boeing has to make compromises in order to maintain a common B737 type rating - which even doesn't include the -200 under EASA.

There is plenty (and I really mean plenty) of room for improvement regarding B737 cockpit ergonomics, such as not getting 10 lights for a simple engine failure, etc., but most of them would probably result in a need for a new type rating endorsment under some authorities.

I honestly hope and believe that given the current Boeing's schedule of pushing B737 generations - every 15 years - that MAX's successor would be designed from scratch (or at least from 787's platform).
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Old 16th Jul 2014, 16:58
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It would be possible to massively improve the 737 just by moving the P6/P18 panels back a foot and making more room. Some carpet would be nice too. The A321 I just looked into the flight deck was a new one granted, but SO much nicer than the 737 I fly.
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Old 16th Jul 2014, 17:17
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I'm from Seattle, and my neighbor is in on the redesign. He's pretty excited by some of the changes.

One of the biggest changes is in the cockpit switches. They are replacing the little white rubber knobs with a slightly better white rubber knob.
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Old 17th Jul 2014, 14:10
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That is if the little white rubber caps stay on. If the don't, as is often the case, then they are no longer nice white rubber switches, but grubby grey ones.
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Old 17th Jul 2014, 15:04
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They are white?! I thought they were dirty grey/black and greasy by default...but that must be because our cockpits are never cleaned
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Old 17th Jul 2014, 15:11
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Too bad... same crappy cockpit and seats designed from the original proof of concept aircraft the Dash 80 some 58 years ago.
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Old 17th Jul 2014, 15:42
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Old 18th Jul 2014, 03:56
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Boeing don't have much of a choice to upgrade the screens (I can imagine a lot of the forward weight reduction comes from the choice of avionics) but that's all they'll be doing (plus a couple of long overdue changes with the engine bleed/pack function). As an A320 driver I have only ever spent a couple of hours in a 737 sim and though I was initially impressed by the level of immersion the cockpit offers a pilot I sure as hell wouldn't like the same feeling continuously for 5 hours with no where to put my feet or rest my head

I wonder what they'd find if they did a study of pilot fatigue B737 vs A320? As stated above, I'm sure cockpit comfort wasn't a major concern for the Monarch party doing the deal.
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Old 18th Jul 2014, 04:26
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From the picture, it seems it still has the crappy 'recall' system! How about EICAS guys?
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Old 18th Jul 2014, 07:08
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Forget it. The MAX will be the same pathetic 50 year old cockpit the rest of them have. You're still going to be running fuel pumps as if you're flying some badly put together homebuilt.

"Does that say overheat? Or overhead? What's the smegging problem?
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Old 18th Jul 2014, 07:14
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Ahhh that's funny, the number of times we've had to cycle fuel pump switches, Prims, Secs, Trim tank transfer failures, outer to inner transfer failures requiring manual transfer, Trim Tank manual fwd transfer blah blah blah on our A330's brand new from the factory is amazing.
For an Aircraft that is supposed to be so automatic it's a joke.

Don't lecture us on the good ol 737. I remember the old girl well.

Looks like a really nice flight deck for the Max to me.

Pay me the same and I know which one I'd prefer to fly.

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Old 19th Jul 2014, 05:17
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Anybody knows If the overhead panel is going to be the same that 737 Ng?
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Old 19th Jul 2014, 05:55
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And how about a window you can see out of in anything other than a light shower of rain...........or alternatively bring back the rain repellant.

How the current situation is certifiable is beyond me..........
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Old 19th Jul 2014, 06:00
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Concerning the 737 overhead panel. time and time again I have heard if they change that panel it's going to require a new type rating. But frankly I think that excuse is a load of hog wash. If the b717 can maintain a common type rating with the dc9 why the hell can't the 737 do the same. In my opinion it comes down to SWA forcing boeing to keep the legacy panel in-place to maintain SWA fleet commonality.
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Old 19th Jul 2014, 06:16
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The only Aircraft I've flown with decent wipers that actually worked was the 744. 737 A330 and 777 all have crap wipers.....

Not just the 737...

The worst would have to be the A330.
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Old 19th Jul 2014, 07:34
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The only Aircraft I've flown with decent wipers that actually worked was the 744. 737 A330 and 777 all have crap wipers....
I don't think it's a wiper issue it's to do with the vertical windows and all the water flowing down them. The newer gen aircraft all have sloping windows which would assist with rain removal.
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Old 19th Jul 2014, 07:56
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No, it's probably due to them sourcing the windscreen wipers from a 1969 VW Beetle.

Things I'd like to see changed on tthe 737:

1. Give us an electric panel where you can tell what generator is online without having to think what blue light on/off where means ..
2. Get the damn engine anti ice system to do things on its own
3. If you're gonna take valves off a small trawler to operate the bleed air can it please be a more modern trawler?
4. After 40 years its about time Boeing had the inspiration to make a tiiiny bit of room for things like a bottle of water and/or a Jepp manual/EFB
5. AC plug sockets on both sides of the cockpit please

yeah and whilst i'm dreaming, how about a lil broadband so i can get on with my life
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Old 19th Jul 2014, 09:09
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If the b717 can maintain a common type rating with the dc9
It is not true at list with EASA license: dc9/md80 and b717 are different type ratings.
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