Clear Left(side)
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Sunny Bay
Clear Left(side)
So Airbus want us to say "Clear LeftSIDE" before taxi.
After clearing LEFT for thirty years I really find this a bit too much to swallow.
Anybody like to give me some inkling of the logic for this stupidity? If there is any?
After clearing LEFT for thirty years I really find this a bit too much to swallow.
Anybody like to give me some inkling of the logic for this stupidity? If there is any?
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Another Planet.
Howzabout "Clear to left wingtip" by Capt/lhs occupant, and "Clear to right wingtip" by F/O or rhs occupant?
Most F/Os I fly with are not ex-military and don't seem to appreciate the "enemy", in the form of civil airport ground traffic, can appear at great speed from ones aircraft 4 o'clock or 8 o'clock.
If I can't see F/Os right ear, nor he my left ear when we look out, then the job has not been done properly!
And it permits one to check the LEDs are drooping, so we don't have yet another Madrid or similar accident, though theoretically the "config" warning will save the day?
However, it also stops one taxying without flap which is FDM marker and therefore another visit to "the office" for tea, NO biscuits.............
Most F/Os I fly with are not ex-military and don't seem to appreciate the "enemy", in the form of civil airport ground traffic, can appear at great speed from ones aircraft 4 o'clock or 8 o'clock.
If I can't see F/Os right ear, nor he my left ear when we look out, then the job has not been done properly!
And it permits one to check the LEDs are drooping, so we don't have yet another Madrid or similar accident, though theoretically the "config" warning will save the day?
However, it also stops one taxying without flap which is FDM marker and therefore another visit to "the office" for tea, NO biscuits.............
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: USA
Howzabout "Clear to left wingtip" by Capt/lhs occupant, and "Clear to right wingtip" by F/O or rhs occupant?
Killaroo,
Forgive me, because I've never flown an Airbus, but what exactly do they hope to accomplish by saying "clear left side", that can't be done with "clear left"?
Also, does your company have to change the calls just because Airbus calls have changed? Surely such trivial and non-technical things can be considered technique and not procedure?
Last edited by Check Airman; 10th November 2013 at 04:38. Reason: error
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
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From: Sunny Bay
Forgive me, because I've never flown an Airbus, but what exactly do the hope to accomplish by saying "clear left side", that can't be done with "clear left"?
I'm beginning to believe there's actually a weird element of brainwashing in this stuff now. I was pulled up on it recently by a Line Trainer fresh out of Law School. He should have stayed there.
Then again....maybe he's perfect for Airbus Ops.
How about the new Stall TOGA 15 call out
Unless they've changed it again. The constantly moving target.
Bottums Up
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: dunnunda
Howzabout "Clear to left wingtip" by Capt/lhs occupant, and "Clear to right wingtip" by F/O or rhs occupant?
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 121
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From: London
So Airbus want us to say "Clear LeftSIDE" before taxi.
After clearing LEFT for thirty years I really find this a bit too much to swallow.
Anybody like to give me some inkling of the logic for this stupidity? If there is any?
After clearing LEFT for thirty years I really find this a bit too much to swallow.
Anybody like to give me some inkling of the logic for this stupidity? If there is any?
Heard of an episode recently where the crew thought the ground guy had disconnected, to be met with yells over the i/c as the engines spooled up - close one
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,369
Likes: 3
From: UK.
So Airbus want us to say "Clear LeftSIDE" before taxi.
After clearing LEFT for thirty years I really find this a bit too much to swallow.
Anybody like to give me some inkling of the logic for this stupidity? If there is any?
After clearing LEFT for thirty years I really find this a bit too much to swallow.
Anybody like to give me some inkling of the logic for this stupidity? If there is any?
Reminds me of Cathay training
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Sunny Bay
Seems like a sensible low cost check'n'call to me, just to make sure the ground guy and associated equipment are clear.
Basil, What's JDI?
I'm guessing - "Just Do It"?
It's sick that this profession is being dumbed down to this level. I'm glad ill be gone in a year. God help the newbies.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
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From: UK
I'm puzzled - what is the issue? As said, it is the actual confirmation that all is clear that is important, not 'the words'. If this 'wordage' is put forward as a new 'mandatory' call, either 'JDI' or rebel (but DO check, of course), in which case I ask what are the penalties for such a revolt? If you get that anal TC, try 'Clear my side' or similar - and see if he/she has a stroke.
Killaroo - "I'm guessing - "Just Do It"?" -Yes, re-inforced by 'JFDI'.
Killaroo - "I'm guessing - "Just Do It"?" -Yes, re-inforced by 'JFDI'.
Joined: May 2013
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From: London
Killaroo,
Mouth music and kefuddled, like it.
Seriously, the check is the thing for sure, but the words (whatever they may be!) serve three key purposes in my mind: communication to the other crewie that the area they cannot see is clear, a trigger for him to also check should he be otherwise distracted and coordination such that more than idle thrust is not commanded and movement attempted until both crew see the area as clear.
Arguably, verbalizing checks probably also increases the likelihood they they are done at all.
Mouth music and kefuddled, like it.
Oh come on, for goodness sake!! It's not about the CHECK it's about the MOUTH MUSIC. THE CALLOUT. Don't be kefuddled!
Arguably, verbalizing checks probably also increases the likelihood they they are done at all.
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From: Home soon
When the imbeciles at AB, try and tell us their A380 is "uncrashable", what do you expect? Sanity?
The New master race of Europe are coming out with a lot of nonsense these days.
The New master race of Europe are coming out with a lot of nonsense these days.
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Blighty (Nth. Downs)
Clear left, right?
Could it be that someone is recognising the ambiguity of the English word "right"?
Presumably in the same list of standard callouts the copilot is being asked to call "clear right side", rather than "clear right"? The latter is capable of being misinterpreted as "clear...right?".
I prefer the expressions left-hand and right-hand. Even better are the old-fashioned terms port and starb'd, but they don't teach sensible things like that any more...
Presumably in the same list of standard callouts the copilot is being asked to call "clear right side", rather than "clear right"? The latter is capable of being misinterpreted as "clear...right?".
I prefer the expressions left-hand and right-hand. Even better are the old-fashioned terms port and starb'd, but they don't teach sensible things like that any more...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 295
Likes: 31
From: Sunny Bay
Clear left, right?
Could it be that someone is recognising the ambiguity of the English word "right"?
Presumably in the same list of standard callouts the copilot is being asked to call "clear right side", rather than "clear right"? The latter is capable of being misinterpreted as "clear...right?".
I prefer the expressions left-hand and right-hand. Even better are the old-fashioned terms port and starb'd, but they don't teach sensible things like that any more...
Could it be that someone is recognising the ambiguity of the English word "right"?
Presumably in the same list of standard callouts the copilot is being asked to call "clear right side", rather than "clear right"? The latter is capable of being misinterpreted as "clear...right?".
I prefer the expressions left-hand and right-hand. Even better are the old-fashioned terms port and starb'd, but they don't teach sensible things like that any more...
Just kidding.
Clear LEFT.
I'm a rebel. So fire me.
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: UK
Could it be that someone is recognising the ambiguity of the English word "right"?
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 51
From: Blighty (Nth. Downs)
Basil,
Not quite! "Clear starb'd..." is more succinct. As an aside - picking up on your "steerboard" reference - I seem to remember that the nautical people originally used "larboard" for "left". Due to the possible verbal confusion with "starboard", it was wisely changed to "port" (which was usualy on the left side when docking).
BOAC,
Yes, why not "JDI", provided it's safe. After all, they took the shilling...
Quote from AB:
It's a common mistake to believe that Airbus (let alone their lawyers) speak / understand "English", or that their manuals are written in it.
Don't know how much you've been exposed to AI material. There has often been room for improvement, but I call that a cheap shot - and so populist on this forum.
Do try to make a positive contribution, old man...
Not quite! "Clear starb'd..." is more succinct. As an aside - picking up on your "steerboard" reference - I seem to remember that the nautical people originally used "larboard" for "left". Due to the possible verbal confusion with "starboard", it was wisely changed to "port" (which was usualy on the left side when docking).
BOAC,
Yes, why not "JDI", provided it's safe. After all, they took the shilling...
Quote from AB:
It's a common mistake to believe that Airbus (let alone their lawyers) speak / understand "English", or that their manuals are written in it.
Don't know how much you've been exposed to AI material. There has often been room for improvement, but I call that a cheap shot - and so populist on this forum.
Do try to make a positive contribution, old man...