RVR for Landing
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: World
RVR for Landing
Hi everyone,
I recently had a little bit of a discussion with a fellow aviator about the application of JAR OPS 1.405 in a CAT I operation.
In particular I refer to the following part:
Scenario 1. The RWY is 9000 ft. Assuming that I fly a plane with a relevant landing distance of 3500 ft, and multiple RVR values of 550/125/75, am I legal to continue beyond OM?
Opinion 1. No, in this case, since also the mid point is relevant and controlling, must match at least 550 m. The third part is not relevant in this case but must be at least 75 m, which we have.
Opinion 2. Yes, only the touchdown RVR is controlling, as long as the mp and rollout points are at least 125 and 75 you are good to land.
The matter is about "If reported and relevant, the mid point and stop end RVR are also controlling".
Scenario 2. The RWY is 9000 ft. Assuming that I fly a plane with a relevant landing distance of 2500 ft, and multiple RVR values of 550/100/75, am I legal to continue beyond OM?
Opinion 1. No, you need 550 in the first part, and you have it, but you also need 125 m in the second part, even though that is not relevant.
Opinion 2. Yes, the relevant part for you is only the touchdown RVR, you can ignore the 125/75 minima in this case.
Please, share your thoughts!
I recently had a little bit of a discussion with a fellow aviator about the application of JAR OPS 1.405 in a CAT I operation.
In particular I refer to the following part:
The touch-down zone RVR is always controlling. If reported and relevant, the mid point and stop end RVR are also controlling. The minimum RVR value for the mid-point is 125 m or the RVR required for the touch-down zone if less, and 75 m for the stop-end. For aeroplanes equipped with a roll-out guidance or control system, the minimum RVR value for the mid-point is 75 m.
Note. “Relevant”, in this context, means that part of the runway used during the high speed phase of the landing down to a speed of approximately 60 knots.
Note. “Relevant”, in this context, means that part of the runway used during the high speed phase of the landing down to a speed of approximately 60 knots.
Opinion 1. No, in this case, since also the mid point is relevant and controlling, must match at least 550 m. The third part is not relevant in this case but must be at least 75 m, which we have.
Opinion 2. Yes, only the touchdown RVR is controlling, as long as the mp and rollout points are at least 125 and 75 you are good to land.
The matter is about "If reported and relevant, the mid point and stop end RVR are also controlling".
Scenario 2. The RWY is 9000 ft. Assuming that I fly a plane with a relevant landing distance of 2500 ft, and multiple RVR values of 550/100/75, am I legal to continue beyond OM?
Opinion 1. No, you need 550 in the first part, and you have it, but you also need 125 m in the second part, even though that is not relevant.
Opinion 2. Yes, the relevant part for you is only the touchdown RVR, you can ignore the 125/75 minima in this case.
Please, share your thoughts!
Last edited by dirk85; 17th October 2012 at 22:22.
Joined: Aug 1998
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Ex-pat Aussie in the UK
My thought: you should read your post again - you have failed to include the weather for any of your scenarios, so there isn't sufficient information to comment.
As a general observation, though - your 550m is to be able to see the runway touchdown zone, in order to land on it.
Your 125m is to be able to steer the aircraft down the runway at high speed without going off the side.
Your 75m is to be able to taxi off on the correct exit.
Knowing that, you should be able to answer your own question - once you have asked it correctly.
As a general observation, though - your 550m is to be able to see the runway touchdown zone, in order to land on it.
Your 125m is to be able to steer the aircraft down the runway at high speed without going off the side.
Your 75m is to be able to taxi off on the correct exit.
Knowing that, you should be able to answer your own question - once you have asked it correctly.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,731
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From: World
Sorry I was not clear enough.
In both the scenarios all the approach and rwy lights are working and aerodrome minima is a standard CAT I (550 m).
During the approach the RVR is reported 550/125/75 in scenario 1, and 550/100/75 in scenario 2.
In both the scenarios all the approach and rwy lights are working and aerodrome minima is a standard CAT I (550 m).
During the approach the RVR is reported 550/125/75 in scenario 1, and 550/100/75 in scenario 2.
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Canada
Dirk, you are good to go in both situations.
Explanation, Situation 1:
You are ok for Touchdown Zone.
Midpoint is 125 so you are ok, read the reg more carefully:
The minimum RVR value for the mid-point is 125 m ok stop, you've got that.
or the RVR required for the touch-down zone if less, No, the RVR required for the touchdown zone is not less than 125m, so 125 it is.
Why must it match 550? It doesn't say that in the extract of the regulation.
Situation 2: Mid point isn't relevant, you answered that yourself.
Explanation, Situation 1:
You are ok for Touchdown Zone.
Midpoint is 125 so you are ok, read the reg more carefully:
The minimum RVR value for the mid-point is 125 m ok stop, you've got that.
or the RVR required for the touch-down zone if less, No, the RVR required for the touchdown zone is not less than 125m, so 125 it is.
No, in this case, since also the mid point is relevant and controlling, must match at least 550 m.
Situation 2: Mid point isn't relevant, you answered that yourself.
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Sutton
Scenario one - As above you are OK (see Airman post).
Scenario two - Depends on the LDR / LDA.Exagerate to appreciate if you were landing on a 4,000 Metre runway (Casablanca say) in a business jet you would be at taxy speed by the mid point...so it is not relevant.
In a heavy 737 going into a 1,700M runway then mid point IS relevant and would have to be (minimum) of 125 M.
Scenario two - Depends on the LDR / LDA.Exagerate to appreciate if you were landing on a 4,000 Metre runway (Casablanca say) in a business jet you would be at taxy speed by the mid point...so it is not relevant.
In a heavy 737 going into a 1,700M runway then mid point IS relevant and would have to be (minimum) of 125 M.
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: England
For a heavy Category D aircraft landing on say, a 7500 long RW, would the midpoint RVR requirement (I am assuming it IS relevant and controlling in this example) be 150m since the min RVRs for T/O for a Cat D ac are 150/150/150 as opposed to 125/125/125 for Cat C?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: World
Thanks everyone!
Your opinions confirm my idea.
Stanley Eevil: the regulation doesn't make any differentiation between different categories, so 125m should be enough also in cat D planes.
Happy landings!
Your opinions confirm my idea.
Stanley Eevil: the regulation doesn't make any differentiation between different categories, so 125m should be enough also in cat D planes.
Happy landings!
