Visual approach then GA

[Didi_7]

Hi,



Once after you're cleared for a visual approach, if you need to G/Around, it's supposed to do a visual circuit and try again? Or Perform a IFR GA procedure?


Thanks

[John21UK]

My understanding is that when you are on a visual approach you join the circuit to try again. And on a instrument approach you fly the published missed approach procedure.

[OPEN DES]

There is no published missed approach for a visual approach in IFR, so technically you should ask ATC. However you can reasonably be expected to fly the missed approach of the original instrument approach.

[captjns]

There is no published missed approach for a visual approach in IFR, so technically you should ask ATC. However you can reasonably be expected to fly the missed approach of the original instrument approach.

If not given, when performing a visual approach, it is the responsibility of the crew to request missed approach instructions in the event of a missed approach.

There are airports with precision and non precision approaches for the same runway, but containing different missed approach procedures. That said, Missed approach procedures as published on instrument approach charts are applicable to those procedures only, unless otherwise instructed by ATC.

[flapsupdown]

Good question, one that I've wondered many times actually but never remembered to look up or ask.

Generally, what I find is that if we decide to go-around during a visual approach, ATC will respond with instructions after we advise them of our intention of "going around".

"callsign, going around"

"callsign, when able, turn left heading XXX"

[FlightPathOBN]

Dont most charts show something like, "straight ahead to XXXX" await further ATC instructions?

[aterpster]

Dont most charts show something like, "straight ahead to XXXX" await further ATC instructions?

No, not for visual approaches.

[esreverlluf]

They've thought of this one in the Australian AIP;

"In the event that an aircraft is required to go around from a visual
approach in VMC, the aircraft must initially climb on runway track,
remain visual and await instructions from ATC. If the aircraft can
not clear obstacles on runway track, the aircraft may turn."

Beware, however, as the technicalities of a "visual approach clearance" vary widely in different parts of the world.

[Check Airman]

Over here, you can realistically expect instructions from ATC to fly a heading and an altitude.

A few weeks ago doing a visual into JFK, the Captain set 1500ft as the missed approach altitude. I had to chuckle that if we went missed he expected to hear:

"Kennedy Tower, roger. Make left traffic 31L, report turning final"

[aterpster]

Over here, you can realistically expect instructions from ATC to fly a heading and an altitude.

Of course you can. But, it is not automatic and where there are CVFPs it is clearly stated on the chart.

Also, the vector you will receive in the event of a "wave off" may be steeper than the gradient of the instrument approach you traded for the visual approach.

[macdo]

We do plenty of approaches into busy Southern European airports where an initial IFR approach is cancelled and a visual approach is requested and given if appropriate. We always plan to go-around into the IFR go-around from the original briefing because that is what ATC expect us to do. In reality, most of the GA's I have done have resulted in additional instructions (or a request from us) from ATC to do something different, such as a Vector or a clearance to turn downwind into the visual circuit. I think the main point I have seen in practise, is that the standard of ATC varies so greatly across Europe, in the absence of clear instructions, you have to do the published IFR GA to be safe. It is the one action that both the pilots and the controllers can 'see' and understand. It may say something different in the JAA manual, but if you have ever witnessed Palma de Majorca ATC screaming at 20 pilots who are all screaming back in 20 different accents of English during multiple GA's from TS activity over the field, you'll want something solid to hang your hat on!

[Microburst2002]

Asking what to do in case of GA to the ATC is the best thing to do.

As a note, in ATIS information specifies that there is a particular approach procedure in use, usually. This makes me think that the ATC is prepared for that kind of procedure in the event of go arounds, so it would be safe, in my opinion, to do the procedure of the plate.

Of course, ATC will give you specific instructions in most of the cases. If they don't, inform ATC you are doing the approach procedure just in case.

[aviatorhi]

When cleared to land your clearance limit is the runway, you are not cleared for the missed, the pattern or any combination thereof. If you need to go around a new clearance must be given, so follow ATC instructions, most times this will be more similar to a DP than an missed approach procedure as, in busy airspace, you will usually join the departing traffic sequence before returning for another try.

In some situations this may not apply, for instance, if on a "cruise" clearance (US Term, not sure about the rest of the world), if "cleared for approach" etc. etc., essentially, in any situation where the controlled clears you to the field and then terminates the radar service, necessitating you to provide your own navigation, you may fly however you wish to get the aircraft onto the runway, and call the controlled when on the ground. Reason is that ATC has cleared the airspace for you of any traffic they control and you are responsible to keep yourself separated from the rest. As such, if you execute a GA you can simply join the traffic pattern and try again.

[Otto Throttle]

What did you brief as the GA? Subject to ATC approval, that is what you should fly.

[Centaurus]

When cleared to land your clearance limit is the runway, you are not cleared for the missed, the pattern or any combination thereof. If you need to go around a new clearance must be given

Is that one person's personal opinion? Or is this information published somewhere?

Normally a clearance to land automatically assumes a go-around may be necessary for safety reasons. For example a hard bounced landing resulting in a go-around or windshear or a late go-around due excessive crosswind. In those examples there is no time for instance to politely request approval for a go-around from the bounce!

[aterpster]

Centaurus:

Is that one person's personal opinion? Or is this information published somewhere?

Here is what the FAA’s Aeronautical Information Manual has to say about it:

A visual approach is not an IAP and therefore has no missed approach segment. If a go around is necessary for any reason, aircraft operating at controlled airports will be issued an appropriate advisory/clearance/instruction by the tower. At uncontrolled airports, aircraft are expected to remain clear of clouds and complete a landing as soon as possible. If a landing cannot be accomplished, the aircraft is expected toremain clear of clouds and contact ATC as soon as possible for further clearance.

Separation from other IFR aircraft will be maintained under these circumstances.

Visual approaches reduce pilot/controller workload and expedite traffic by shortening flight paths to the airport. It is the pilot’sresponsibility to advise ATC as soon as possible if a visual approach is not desired

Authorization to conduct a visual approach is an IFR authorization and does not alter IFR flight plan cancellation responsibility.

[sevenstrokeroll]

centaurus , I agree with you. a clearance to land does protect the missed approach airspace (mind you ATC may have to scramble a bit if you do go around)

folks let's review:


IF you get a Visual Approach clearance, you can:

see the airport (or published visual approach procedure navigation checkpoints/landmarks)

or see traffic ahead which is going to the airport you are going to

and can reasonably be expected to maintain visual conditions to the airport/runway. key word: reasonably. (if there is a sudden transdimensional warp which obscures the runway...wellllll)


so...you will stay visual and if you need to abandon the approach / go around

don't sweat it. use your best judgement.

are you suddenly in cloud? well do the most appropriate instrument missed you can UNTIL ADVISED TO DO OTHERWISE...do you really think ATC wants you to run into a mountain? Advise ATC of the situation and when issued "climb and maintain X, fly heading Y, you are magically IFR protected and cleared again

Indeed, in the USA there is an approach called a "CONTACT" approach which while not identical to a visual is close enough to provide guidance to use a published MISSED approach if CONTACT with the runway is lost.

Are you CLEAR and a MILLION? Well, climb to pattern altitude ( I would set 1500 feet above field elevation unless something else is published....for 1500 feet is standard TURBINE powered pattern (you british guys call them CIRCUITS) altitude) And prepare to enter the pattern for a visual return.

by the way LEFT hand pattern is standard here in the USA unless otherwise published.

And yes, after you have started a go around and radioed your intention to ATC, you may rightly expect ammended instructions...and if you don't, STATE YOUR INTENTION to fly published missed for (insert name of approach here).

Be in command of the situation at all times...think ahead...is the wx marginal for a visual? Well, on contact with atc advise : in event of go around we plan to fly published missed for (x) and return for ILS unless you have other clearance for us.

For those who don't know what a contact approach is....well most airlines don't do them anymore...but you need ONE miles (sm) visibility and can navigate to the airport via visual contact with terrain, a standard instrument approach must be available and you must stay clear of cloud... you don't actually need to see the airport at the start of the approach.

[aterpster]

sevenstrokeroll:

centaurus , I agree with you. a clearance to land does protect the missed approach airspace (mind you ATC may have to scramble a bit if you do go around)

And, the heck with the AIM. Tell it to the judge.

Contact approaches have long been prohibited for Part 121 carriers except where they train for them and seek an FAA amendment to their Ops Specs.

When I started flying Part 121 we had permissive rules for following known landmarks to the airport that were really crazy. They went away, as I recall, in 1980 or so.

[sevenstrokeroll]

ok aterpster...what about VISUAL APPROACH CLEARANCE is an IFR authorization ...et al?

if you start a visual...great, you should be able to complete a visual

but

if you end up in the clouds again, what happens? well, you haven't CANCELLED IFR have you? Anytime you are VMC, you have to see and avoid other traffic. IF you are back in the clouds you must ADVISE ATC you are no longer VMC and will be handled appropriately

and for that awful moment when you can't get through to ATC due to frequency congestion? what do you do then? You safely navigate the plane away from terrain and the most likely way to do it is using the published missed.


as soon as you re establish contact with ATC and get an altitude to fly and no visual restriction you will be ''protected'' again.

mind you I mentioned most airlines don't do contact approaches anymore (wisely)

and aterpster...the clearance limit thing of the runway...it is for an Instrument approach and THEN YOU are protected in case of a go around/missed.

[sevenstrokeroll]

oh, and you can get a visual approach clearance to any airport, including an airport that doesn't have a published standard instrument approach procedure.


so, you are on your own to aviate, navigate and communicate...don't run into anything as there is no published procedure for anything.