A320 Green+Yellow fail
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A320 Green+Yellow fail
Hi everybody
When we loose both green and yellow hydraulics flaps are stuck and slats position is same for 2 and 3. But if you move the flap lever from 2 to 3 the VFE changes to 185KTS from 200 KTS without any movement of flap/slat because VFE is displayed according to lever position. Obviously it is incorrect. Then why does the ECAM/QRH ask you land in lever 3 position. GPWS is put off anyway so that is also not the issue. Thanks
When we loose both green and yellow hydraulics flaps are stuck and slats position is same for 2 and 3. But if you move the flap lever from 2 to 3 the VFE changes to 185KTS from 200 KTS without any movement of flap/slat because VFE is displayed according to lever position. Obviously it is incorrect. Then why does the ECAM/QRH ask you land in lever 3 position. GPWS is put off anyway so that is also not the issue. Thanks
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Yeh, Right on the button.
Plan to land flaps Full even if it is not. QRH. Landing Dist corrections
Also, chances are your Go Around, if any will be doing what? with the gear?
Plan to land flaps Full even if it is not. QRH. Landing Dist corrections
Also, chances are your Go Around, if any will be doing what? with the gear?
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One doubt ...
Lets say Flaps stucked at postion 2. But we are preparing to land in config 3 or FULL. The Vapp and VFE will be according to lever position i.e 3 or FULL and actual flaps are in position 2. Arent we flying on lower speed for this config (2). ??
Please explain what I'm missing here ...
Lets say Flaps stucked at postion 2. But we are preparing to land in config 3 or FULL. The Vapp and VFE will be according to lever position i.e 3 or FULL and actual flaps are in position 2. Arent we flying on lower speed for this config (2). ??
Please explain what I'm missing here ...
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A320 Green+yellow fail
To get G/A mode all you need is lever 1 position. Read PRO-ABN-27 P7-36. and Natstrackalpha you don,t plan flap full because slat will move to 27 degrees which is against ECAM PROCEDURE. If you go around then no change in configuration. All given in ECAM. This one is not that easy.
Last edited by vilas; 28th May 2012 at 02:40.
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Maybe for commonality with the g+b hydraulic approach. Otherwise a very good question.
However for the 330 we use flap 2 for the dual hydraulic failures. Why can't flap3 be used ?
However for the 330 we use flap 2 for the dual hydraulic failures. Why can't flap3 be used ?
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GPWS, maybe?
With gpws flap mode off you dont have available its protection for a possible CFIT. If you do your final approach to a mountain instead of a runway, the gpws will not alert until too low gear. WIth GPWS in flap 3, you still have that protection, right?
But in case of flap and slata jammed at zero the precedure is flaps one only, why?
With gpws flap mode off you dont have available its protection for a possible CFIT. If you do your final approach to a mountain instead of a runway, the gpws will not alert until too low gear. WIth GPWS in flap 3, you still have that protection, right?
But in case of flap and slata jammed at zero the precedure is flaps one only, why?
Last edited by Microburst2002; 28th May 2012 at 14:17.
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Microburst 2002
You don't get GPWS because of flap lever but actual position of flap. Since flap is stuck ECAM asks you to put it off. otherwise you will keep getting "too low flap". So that is not the reason. This one is a real teaser. In case of slat/flap stuck at 0, I mentioned earlier that you need the lever in 1 position to get the go around mode.
You don't get GPWS because of flap lever but actual position of flap. Since flap is stuck ECAM asks you to put it off. otherwise you will keep getting "too low flap". So that is not the reason. This one is a real teaser. In case of slat/flap stuck at 0, I mentioned earlier that you need the lever in 1 position to get the go around mode.
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aanubis
Vls does not come from lever position. When you have slat/flap problem it is the only speed that is correct. It is always correct for present configuration. Displayed VFE, VFE next, F, S all are from the lever. They are good time friends.
Vls does not come from lever position. When you have slat/flap problem it is the only speed that is correct. It is always correct for present configuration. Displayed VFE, VFE next, F, S all are from the lever. They are good time friends.
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G + Y fail.
A320 Green+yellow fail
Well, yeh, Villa I see what you mean, but what I meant was:The landing is made in Config 3 but the corrections are made to the Flap FULL Vref shown as VLS with Config Full selected on the Perf Approach page. You can enter the corrected speed into the Vapp fields as an aide-memoir. The Vapp is flown using Selected Speed.
*
the required Landing Distance is obtained from the from the landing distance Without Autobrake Config FULL and as I said many moons ago, for runways longer than 2500 meteres landing distance is not normally a limiting consideration.
Do the app as you ould for Landing with Flaps and Slates Jammed - NHP briefs the drill to talk HP though the config and spd changes.
Flaps and Slats will be SLOW and you will have to gravity drop the gear which will knock out the the NWS, this will also be the case even if you have a bit of Green hyd sill operational . - also, you are now CAT 1.
Don`t forget you have a frozen stab, so no trim. On initial app you may not notice.
the stab while you are in Alternate Law, but when you lower the gear you will go into Direct Law and your trim will be set at the speed you were at when you dropped the gear. It is for that reason .you should select Flaps 3. reduce speed to Vapp and then extend the gear. The landing ATT may be unusual, continue to monitor the PFD until you get used to the new att. REV 1 and/or 2 will be inop NWS is inop but you may have a bit of anti-skid and maybe some form of auto-brake, you could possibly vacate prior to shutdown.
To get G/A mode all you need is lever 1 position. Read PRO-ABN-27 P7-36. and Natstrackalpha you don,t plan flap full because slat will move to 27 degrees which is against ECAM PROCEDURE. If you go around then no change in configuration. All given in ECAM. This one is not that easy.
Last edited by vilas; 28th May 2012 at 02:40.
Last edited by vilas; 28th May 2012 at 02:40.
*
the required Landing Distance is obtained from the from the landing distance Without Autobrake Config FULL and as I said many moons ago, for runways longer than 2500 meteres landing distance is not normally a limiting consideration.
Do the app as you ould for Landing with Flaps and Slates Jammed - NHP briefs the drill to talk HP though the config and spd changes.
Flaps and Slats will be SLOW and you will have to gravity drop the gear which will knock out the the NWS, this will also be the case even if you have a bit of Green hyd sill operational . - also, you are now CAT 1.
Don`t forget you have a frozen stab, so no trim. On initial app you may not notice.
the stab while you are in Alternate Law, but when you lower the gear you will go into Direct Law and your trim will be set at the speed you were at when you dropped the gear. It is for that reason .you should select Flaps 3. reduce speed to Vapp and then extend the gear. The landing ATT may be unusual, continue to monitor the PFD until you get used to the new att. REV 1 and/or 2 will be inop NWS is inop but you may have a bit of anti-skid and maybe some form of auto-brake, you could possibly vacate prior to shutdown.
Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 30th May 2012 at 14:14. Reason: Changed GY to Green
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Natstrackalpha
All that long procedure I am fully aware off. I teach every other day.You still haven't understood my question. When you move the lever to position3, nothing moves because flaps are stuck at zero and slats positon for 2&3 is same. Then why go to 3? You can still reduce to Vapp. Lever does not produce the lift required, the surface when it moves it does. And from where do you think A/Brake and anti skid will come? It doesn't. you only have 7 applications of brake, and you restrict brake pressure to 1000psi. with new ABCU it restricts to 1000 automatically.
All that long procedure I am fully aware off. I teach every other day.You still haven't understood my question. When you move the lever to position3, nothing moves because flaps are stuck at zero and slats positon for 2&3 is same. Then why go to 3? You can still reduce to Vapp. Lever does not produce the lift required, the surface when it moves it does. And from where do you think A/Brake and anti skid will come? It doesn't. you only have 7 applications of brake, and you restrict brake pressure to 1000psi. with new ABCU it restricts to 1000 automatically.
Last edited by vilas; 30th May 2012 at 15:00.
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Vilas
Why is there GPWS FLAP MODE OFF in the blue remaining and GPWS LDG FLAP 3 ON in the yellow remaining?
Both are FOR LANDING USE FLAPS 3' Though...
You know... You raised a very good question!
Why is there GPWS FLAP MODE OFF in the blue remaining and GPWS LDG FLAP 3 ON in the yellow remaining?
Both are FOR LANDING USE FLAPS 3' Though...
You know... You raised a very good question!
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Vilas
In the EGPWC schematic In the FCOM there are only two possible inputs from the SFCC:
FULL or CONF3
If it was actual, any abnormal configuration would inevitably lead to a GPWS during short final unless FLAP MODE OFF. But we see that in yellow remaining we push FLAP 3 mode ON. So I would say, without betting my savings, that GPWS mode 4 is governed by flap lever position rather than actual flaps/slats.
Still, blue remaining procedure calls for landing conf 3, but GPWS will be OFF, so I don't understand the reason for the conf 3 when in many cases nothing at all happens when moving the lever to 3. Moreover, by doing so displayed VFE is more in error than with the lever at 2.
Maybe a simulator experiment can give a clue on the reason, if you have the chance...
In the EGPWC schematic In the FCOM there are only two possible inputs from the SFCC:
FULL or CONF3
If it was actual, any abnormal configuration would inevitably lead to a GPWS during short final unless FLAP MODE OFF. But we see that in yellow remaining we push FLAP 3 mode ON. So I would say, without betting my savings, that GPWS mode 4 is governed by flap lever position rather than actual flaps/slats.
Still, blue remaining procedure calls for landing conf 3, but GPWS will be OFF, so I don't understand the reason for the conf 3 when in many cases nothing at all happens when moving the lever to 3. Moreover, by doing so displayed VFE is more in error than with the lever at 2.
Maybe a simulator experiment can give a clue on the reason, if you have the chance...
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microburst
With yellow remaining flaps move so you can select flap3 on the GPWS and have its protection and land with flap3. But with blue remaining flaps do not move so you will get "too low flaps" if you select flap3 therefore ECAM tells you to put the mode OFF. So far it is straight forward. But why select 3 when nothing is going to move that is my question also.
With yellow remaining flaps move so you can select flap3 on the GPWS and have its protection and land with flap3. But with blue remaining flaps do not move so you will get "too low flaps" if you select flap3 therefore ECAM tells you to put the mode OFF. So far it is straight forward. But why select 3 when nothing is going to move that is my question also.
Last edited by vilas; 30th May 2012 at 15:38.
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Yep, u right, now I can see the GPWS mode 4 logic is based specifically in the flaps, not in the configuration as a whole. The schematic should say flaps instead of conf. The flaps fault ECAM clarified this to me.
Good I didint bet anything!
Good I didint bet anything!
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Villa: without looking at any technical manuals, there are two things that.i can think of off the top of my head.
1. The simple answer would be tha airbus want you to do this just to maintain reletavily normal operating procedure.
2. In the event of a go around airbus might not want pilots inadvertently raising the slats into the Config 1 position due to the potential of stalling at low speeds, the lift is already already compromised by the lack of flaps, so keeping the flaps lever at Config 3 ensures that an error cannot be made.
Just some thoughts.
1. The simple answer would be tha airbus want you to do this just to maintain reletavily normal operating procedure.
2. In the event of a go around airbus might not want pilots inadvertently raising the slats into the Config 1 position due to the potential of stalling at low speeds, the lift is already already compromised by the lack of flaps, so keeping the flaps lever at Config 3 ensures that an error cannot be made.
Just some thoughts.
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Natstrackalpha
All that long procedure I am fully aware off. I teach every other day.You still haven't understood my question. When you move the lever to position3, nothing moves because flaps are stuck at zero and slats positon for 2&3 is same. Then why go to 3? You can still reduce to Vapp. Lever does not produce the lift required, the surface when it moves it does. And from where do you think A/Brake and anti skid will come? It doesn't. you only have 7 applications of brake, and you restrict brake pressure to 1000psi. with new ABCU it restricts to 1000 automatically.
All that long procedure I am fully aware off. I teach every other day.You still haven't understood my question. When you move the lever to position3, nothing moves because flaps are stuck at zero and slats positon for 2&3 is same. Then why go to 3? You can still reduce to Vapp. Lever does not produce the lift required, the surface when it moves it does. And from where do you think A/Brake and anti skid will come? It doesn't. you only have 7 applications of brake, and you restrict brake pressure to 1000psi. with new ABCU it restricts to 1000 automatically.
Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 31st May 2012 at 15:48.
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Hello all,
For g+y inop:
landing is made with flaps handle at 3 although salts do not move from pos 2 to 3 for commonality reasons. If U notice that all F/CTL failures require flaps handle at 3. And that was Airbus official answer to my company years ago.
For g+y inop:
landing is made with flaps handle at 3 although salts do not move from pos 2 to 3 for commonality reasons. If U notice that all F/CTL failures require flaps handle at 3. And that was Airbus official answer to my company years ago.