Parking Brake
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Parking Brake
Hi folks,
whats your opinion on setting the brakes on an activ runway, whilst awaiting take off clearance?
Some instructors don't really like you to do that, because of possible blockage of brakes and as a result of that, a blocked runway!
Regards,
MA
whats your opinion on setting the brakes on an activ runway, whilst awaiting take off clearance?
Some instructors don't really like you to do that, because of possible blockage of brakes and as a result of that, a blocked runway!
Regards,
MA
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Pisses me right off when you're instructed to line up and hold
on an unSIMOP'd parallel runway and later told to expect a 6
minute delay due to landing traffic. This will happen of course
when the aircraft is very light.
A few tendon aches can be avoided if the buggers would just
leave us sitting at the HP with the handbrake on.
on an unSIMOP'd parallel runway and later told to expect a 6
minute delay due to landing traffic. This will happen of course
when the aircraft is very light.
A few tendon aches can be avoided if the buggers would just
leave us sitting at the HP with the handbrake on.
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marsattacks,
Its easy enough to rest/cover the brakes, your not planning to 'park' yourself on the runway for long and its two less things to do (set/unset the brakes) when your busy enough. Especially at busy airfields you want to get going. Keep your life simple theres enough to do!
Happy landings
Its easy enough to rest/cover the brakes, your not planning to 'park' yourself on the runway for long and its two less things to do (set/unset the brakes) when your busy enough. Especially at busy airfields you want to get going. Keep your life simple theres enough to do!
Happy landings
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Never had anyone mention their brakes not releasing after pushback. Never had anyone say "don't set the parking brake on the runway." Never seen it in an approved ops manual/FOM.
To set, or not set, the parking brake appears to be a 'technique' issue, at least on the sunny side of the pond.
To set, or not set, the parking brake appears to be a 'technique' issue, at least on the sunny side of the pond.
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Never had anyone mention their brakes not releasing after pushback
Not all aircraft includes the parking brake in the TOWS.
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KBPsen - Not all aircraft includes the parking brake in the TOWS.
Agreed. That would be a technique/procedure that might be covered in the ops manual - "do not set parking brake on the runway."
I've flown 7 models of airliners by 3 different manufacturers and each one alerted for the parking brake being set so I'm guessing it's a certification standard.
Agreed. That would be a technique/procedure that might be covered in the ops manual - "do not set parking brake on the runway."
I've flown 7 models of airliners by 3 different manufacturers and each one alerted for the parking brake being set so I'm guessing it's a certification standard.
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Our Ops Manual states that setting the parking brake on a contaminated RWY is prohibited. Other than that it comes down to personal preference.
Personally, if I set the parking brake on the RWY (only if the expected delay is more than a minute), I keep my hand on the lever as a reminder. And I always tell my colleague when I set/release the brake so he/she knows what I am doing.
If I remember correctly, there was an incident many years ago when a crew (DC10?) performed a takeoff on a contaminated RWY with the parking brake set. No one realised that mistake until the tires blew later upon touchdown at destination.
DBate
Personally, if I set the parking brake on the RWY (only if the expected delay is more than a minute), I keep my hand on the lever as a reminder. And I always tell my colleague when I set/release the brake so he/she knows what I am doing.
If I remember correctly, there was an incident many years ago when a crew (DC10?) performed a takeoff on a contaminated RWY with the parking brake set. No one realised that mistake until the tires blew later upon touchdown at destination.
DBate
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1. that one is correct.
and not this one
2.
Are you sure you were instructed (i.e. ordered) or just cleared to Line Up ?
No TWR ever objected if I decided to stay on HP ( when it would be obvious that we would have to hold on Line Up)
P.S. sitting on a line up, more or less you become a sitting duck.
and not this one
because of possible blockage of brakes and as a result of that, a blocked runway
Pisses me right off when you're instructed to line up and hold
on an unSIMOP'd parallel runway and later told to expect a 6
minute delay due to landing traffic
on an unSIMOP'd parallel runway and later told to expect a 6
minute delay due to landing traffic
No TWR ever objected if I decided to stay on HP ( when it would be obvious that we would have to hold on Line Up)
P.S. sitting on a line up, more or less you become a sitting duck.
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I have a quick gander at the TCAS when just about to line up
GG and work out if he's going to squeeze me in after the first
landing. Usually looks good and anticipate rolling within one
minute. But you get these new ATC guys who don't know the
crews and you end up sitting there for minutes with cramped
tendons coming on. In that situation one can't argue for a TO
clearance and the Duty SATCO might be off having a nice pee
somewhere at the time.
BTW I NEVER park the brake on a runway EVER - not after an
event I was in yonks ago in the 737-400 when I lined up and
held for an intersection and the bloody thing stuck no matter
what trick I used. We had to be unceremoniously dragged off
the runway like a loathsome whore at a nuns' fashion parade.
GG and work out if he's going to squeeze me in after the first
landing. Usually looks good and anticipate rolling within one
minute. But you get these new ATC guys who don't know the
crews and you end up sitting there for minutes with cramped
tendons coming on. In that situation one can't argue for a TO
clearance and the Duty SATCO might be off having a nice pee
somewhere at the time.
BTW I NEVER park the brake on a runway EVER - not after an
event I was in yonks ago in the 737-400 when I lined up and
held for an intersection and the bloody thing stuck no matter
what trick I used. We had to be unceremoniously dragged off
the runway like a loathsome whore at a nuns' fashion parade.
misd-agin: Once in an A320 had the brakes fail to release after being stationary on a taxyway awaiting an outbound aircraft to leave the ramp. All the usual tricks failed (even those suggested my ENGINEERING) and the aircraft had to be shut down on the taxyway and pax bussed in. So, brake callipers DO occasionally stick and the runway is not the best place for this to happen!
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Sticking brake pads will occur with, or without, the parking brake being involved. I've had this happen in cars that had no parking brake.
I've heard of guys having stuck brakes on landing. Obviously they didn't use the parking brake.
Technique, not procedure.
I've heard of guys having stuck brakes on landing. Obviously they didn't use the parking brake.
Technique, not procedure.
misd-agin: Yes - moot point - however "old hands" on the A320 will tell you that this type has a history of this. Parking in done via a different HYD system (depends on vintage) When initially moving off after pushback the brakes are checked for two reasons a) to check that the normal brake system has taken over and b) to check that the parking system pressure has dropped to zero and that the aircraft moves smoothly.
ALL I was trying to say was that setting the parking brake on the runway will introduce another variable into the equation which MIGHT JUST MIGHT go wrong. I was not starting an arguement about procedures or SOP`s.
ALL I was trying to say was that setting the parking brake on the runway will introduce another variable into the equation which MIGHT JUST MIGHT go wrong. I was not starting an arguement about procedures or SOP`s.
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If A320's have a history of sticking brakes AFTER setting the parking brake that would be a reasonable technique to pass on.
We don't know from the OP if he's on the A320. I've flown 8 major airliners(no A320) and stuck brakes has never been an issue.
We're faced with a constant battle in aviation about old technology/techniques vs. new technology/techniques. Do the old tricks still apply to the new situation? That's the endless battle and can result in guys trying to bring something from the past into the present. Sometimes their advice should be heeded and sometimes it should be discarded.
For example - raw data backup? Absolutely...until we got GPS's!
And 'Ace the Techincal Interview' says that GPS's aren't as reliable(2002 printing). 
Recently NATS flight showed us 0.06 off in the middle of the N. Atlantic. 
Literally had a FO try to fly a 6 hr flight in an FMC a/c using raw data and heading select. Why? Because he didn't trust the LNAV/VNAV.
So does the particular tail number, of model(A320, or early A320), have a history of stuck brakes? That would warrant some caution. If it doesn't I personally wouldn't worry about it.
We don't know from the OP if he's on the A320. I've flown 8 major airliners(no A320) and stuck brakes has never been an issue.
We're faced with a constant battle in aviation about old technology/techniques vs. new technology/techniques. Do the old tricks still apply to the new situation? That's the endless battle and can result in guys trying to bring something from the past into the present. Sometimes their advice should be heeded and sometimes it should be discarded.
For example - raw data backup? Absolutely...until we got GPS's!
And 'Ace the Techincal Interview' says that GPS's aren't as reliable(2002 printing). Recently NATS flight showed us 0.06 off in the middle of the N. Atlantic. Literally had a FO try to fly a 6 hr flight in an FMC a/c using raw data and heading select. Why? Because he didn't trust the LNAV/VNAV.
So does the particular tail number, of model(A320, or early A320), have a history of stuck brakes? That would warrant some caution. If it doesn't I personally wouldn't worry about it.
Last edited by misd-agin; 25th Feb 2012 at 17:57. Reason: sentence structure
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PB on
Once, while flying the 737-300, I had an interesting situation:
After linning up, the twr asked us to wait a little.
Ok... parking brake set !
"you're cleared for take off"
When the parking brake was released, guess what ? Anti skid light came on ! As far as i could understand it was something with the parking brake valve, latter on the gate, after setting the brakes again, the light came off !
If anyone of you ever face something like that, try setting the parking brake again and then releasing it.
After linning up, the twr asked us to wait a little.
Ok... parking brake set !
"you're cleared for take off"
When the parking brake was released, guess what ? Anti skid light came on ! As far as i could understand it was something with the parking brake valve, latter on the gate, after setting the brakes again, the light came off !
If anyone of you ever face something like that, try setting the parking brake again and then releasing it.
Psychophysiological entity
There's a lot known about disc contamination - right down to molecular level. I used to allow intermittent forward movement to stop etching the discs with pad material. I do it now on a hot car with FBW brakes. Drives the wife crazy.
