Shut down engine after fire warning msg disappears ?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ether here or there!
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BAe146
aerobat77 said
"on the bae146 we had a procedure for exact this situation . when fire warning was triggered- thrust lever idle and fire handle to the first detent what automatically cuts the bleed air."
May I suggest that you re-view your technical manual.
Pulling the fire handle out to the initial baulk, operates a micro-switch that lights "ENG FIRE HANDLE" annunciator on the MWS.
Remember "White over Red"
This is so the Handling pilot dose not have to look up to confirm that the correct handle has been pulled!
the second detent, or full travel, 3 additional micro-switches operate that:
(a) close bleed air
(b) trip Engine driven Gen on engine 1 & 4
(c) close Hyd systems on engine 2 & 3
and then rotating left or right 90 degrees fires bottle 1 or 2
"on the bae146 we had a procedure for exact this situation . when fire warning was triggered- thrust lever idle and fire handle to the first detent what automatically cuts the bleed air."
May I suggest that you re-view your technical manual.
Pulling the fire handle out to the initial baulk, operates a micro-switch that lights "ENG FIRE HANDLE" annunciator on the MWS.
Remember "White over Red"
This is so the Handling pilot dose not have to look up to confirm that the correct handle has been pulled!
the second detent, or full travel, 3 additional micro-switches operate that:
(a) close bleed air
(b) trip Engine driven Gen on engine 1 & 4
(c) close Hyd systems on engine 2 & 3
and then rotating left or right 90 degrees fires bottle 1 or 2
Thanx grounded27
My experience with fire loops is quite limited, but my memory is;
1. With dual podded engines there have been several accidents where one engine failed and the wrong engine shutdown due to interpretation of the fire alarm. B52, B1, etc.
2. Smoke in cockpit from an engine fire that was not detected due to fireloop placement only near hot section
3. Fireloops that no longer function when the engine nacelle leaves, but the fire remains.
4. Fires that spread to composite reverser cascades on the ground that are difficult to detect and extiniguish
My experience with fire loops is quite limited, but my memory is;
1. With dual podded engines there have been several accidents where one engine failed and the wrong engine shutdown due to interpretation of the fire alarm. B52, B1, etc.
2. Smoke in cockpit from an engine fire that was not detected due to fireloop placement only near hot section
3. Fireloops that no longer function when the engine nacelle leaves, but the fire remains.
4. Fires that spread to composite reverser cascades on the ground that are difficult to detect and extiniguish
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: w
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BOAC
it doesn't matter if i am or not a 777 pilot. what i mean "i think " is how they disign the CHECKLIST, not the airplane.
is it a shame to ask something you don't know here?
it doesn't matter if i am or not a 777 pilot. what i mean "i think " is how they disign the CHECKLIST, not the airplane.
is it a shame to ask something you don't know here?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: w
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the QRH doesn't say what to do if the msg dispear
- are you sure?
- are you sure?
B-777 Quick Reference Handbook
[] FIRE ENG L,R
Condition: Fire is detected in the engine
1 A/T ARM switch
(affected side) . . . . .Confirm . . . . . . . . . . . OFF
2 Thrust lever
(affected side) . . . . .Confirm . . . . . . . . . . . Idle
3 FUEL CONTROL switch
(affected side) . . . . .Confirm . . . . . . . . CUTOFF
4 Engine fire switch
(affected side) . . . . .Confirm . . . . . . . . . . . Pull
5 If the FIRE ENG message stays shown:
Engine fire switch . . . . . . . . Rotate to the stop
and hold for 1 second
If after 30 seconds, the FIRE ENG message stays
shown:
Engine fire switch. . . . . . . .Rotate to the
other stop and
hold for 1 second
6 APU selector
(if APU available) . . . . . . . . . . . .START, then ON
7 Transponder mode selector . . . . . . . . . . TA ONLY
8 Plan to land at the nearest suitable airport.
9 Do not accomplish the following checklist:
(Continues)
[] FIRE ENG L,R
Condition: Fire is detected in the engine
1 A/T ARM switch
(affected side) . . . . .Confirm . . . . . . . . . . . OFF
2 Thrust lever
(affected side) . . . . .Confirm . . . . . . . . . . . Idle
3 FUEL CONTROL switch
(affected side) . . . . .Confirm . . . . . . . . CUTOFF
4 Engine fire switch
(affected side) . . . . .Confirm . . . . . . . . . . . Pull
5 If the FIRE ENG message stays shown:
Engine fire switch . . . . . . . . Rotate to the stop
and hold for 1 second
If after 30 seconds, the FIRE ENG message stays
shown:
Engine fire switch. . . . . . . .Rotate to the
other stop and
hold for 1 second
6 APU selector
(if APU available) . . . . . . . . . . . .START, then ON
7 Transponder mode selector . . . . . . . . . . TA ONLY
8 Plan to land at the nearest suitable airport.
9 Do not accomplish the following checklist:
(Continues)
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by wingtip
t doesn't matter if i am or not a 777 pilot. what i mean "i think " is how they disign the CHECKLIST, not the airplane. is it a shame to ask something you don't know here?
1) If you are not an 'ATPL' qualified 'Captain' as you claim to be say so OR
2) You are operating a B777 and thus have access to all the documentation and training staff you need
Either you are incredibly poorly trained or have not absorbed ANY of your training and should not be operating OR you need to be asking your question in a different forum in a different way.. Which is it? Read Denti/4 Jan again? Honesty is the best policy.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany
Age: 47
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pulling the fire handle out to the initial baulk, operates a micro-switch that lights "ENG FIRE HANDLE" annunciator on the MWS.
Remember "White over Red"
This is so the Handling pilot dose not have to look up to confirm that the correct handle has been pulled!
the second detent, or full travel, 3 additional micro-switches operate that:
(a) close bleed air
(b) trip Engine driven Gen on engine 1 & 4
(c) close Hyd systems on engine 2 & 3
and then rotating left or right 90 degrees fires bottle 1 or 2
Remember "White over Red"
This is so the Handling pilot dose not have to look up to confirm that the correct handle has been pulled!
the second detent, or full travel, 3 additional micro-switches operate that:
(a) close bleed air
(b) trip Engine driven Gen on engine 1 & 4
(c) close Hyd systems on engine 2 & 3
and then rotating left or right 90 degrees fires bottle 1 or 2
its pretty right what you write about the "white over red" - the first detent also activates this light which is above the fire warning light - here i must say its a very good idea to visually confirm you are about to pull the correct fire handle.
when it comes to bleed air cut on the first detent i,m pretty but no absolutely sure since i,m not current anymore on this plane, but i still have the training documents from eurowings and baesystems so i can check and report .
definitivly the bae146 has a procedure for checking a bleed air leak , we trained this at manchester many times. and definitivly its procedúre not to shut when you can isolate this leak by cutting bleed air. when you can not isolate the leak its procedure to shut.
best regards !
I don't know what Wingtip's quals are, but what he posted is exactly what my current QRH shows. The first place where you have any choice about what to do is step 5 where is says ff the message stays shown to fire the bottle.
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: wherever
Age: 55
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know what's happened to PPRuNe lately but there appears to be a flight simmers takeover. Along with some very ill informed rubbish spouted from people who should know better.
There isn't a jet flying that was certified in the last 30 years that doesn't demand a shutdown for an engine fire warning. No matter how brief the warning was. There is some variation as to whether the extinguisher is fired after the engine is isolated but in most cases it is.
It would take a very brave(foolish) man to keep an engine running for no better reason than the warning went out.
Here is a summary of a few QRH:
BBJ/73 classic/73 NG - shut it down and if the fire switch light or ENG OVERHEAT light stays illuminated use the extinguisher
Avro RJ (aerobat77 take note) - shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
Embraer 145 and Ejet - Shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
l1011 shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
A330 (RR) shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
Get the picture?
There isn't a jet flying that was certified in the last 30 years that doesn't demand a shutdown for an engine fire warning. No matter how brief the warning was. There is some variation as to whether the extinguisher is fired after the engine is isolated but in most cases it is.
It would take a very brave(foolish) man to keep an engine running for no better reason than the warning went out.
Here is a summary of a few QRH:
BBJ/73 classic/73 NG - shut it down and if the fire switch light or ENG OVERHEAT light stays illuminated use the extinguisher
Avro RJ (aerobat77 take note) - shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
Embraer 145 and Ejet - Shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
l1011 shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
A330 (RR) shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
Get the picture?
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany
Age: 47
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know what's happened to PPRuNe lately but there appears to be a flight simmers takeover
lol, what an efford for probably just flight simulation purposes, but ok, i,m home again and looked at the bae146 type rating documents . some pictures may clarify more than writing romans... here we go
so some facts , but in regards only to the Bae146 :
-hedgehopper was right, the first detent of the fire handle does not trip bleed air , it just shows "white over red" for confirmation you pull the right handle.
-the bae 146, like mentioned by me above does not require a shutdown with a bleed air leak when you can isolate it and requires a shutdown when you cannot isolate it . in every case when a bleed air leak occours turn bleed air off at this engine. further it has a separate warning system for bleed air leaks ( pylon overheat) and a separate procedure for dealing with it.
-at a real engine fire of course shut the engine but, aerobat noted :
Avro RJ (aerobat77 take note) - shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
nice weekend to all !
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany
Age: 47
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
that maybe, like mentioned not current anymore on the bae146, since three years a "downgrade" to corporate aviation on a cheyenne III.
but the procedure did not changed, you do not shut on this aircraft an engine for a bleed air leak that you can isolate and you only fire a bottle when fire warning after shutdown continues my friend.
cheers
but the procedure did not changed, you do not shut on this aircraft an engine for a bleed air leak that you can isolate and you only fire a bottle when fire warning after shutdown continues my friend.
cheers
As BOAC says, follow the QRH. If circumstances make it obvious that following the QRH may not be the safest thing to do, then do the safest thing. That's the answer.
If we don't have these discussions than you might be a free range cowboy and flunk your next sim test
