F/O taxi procedures
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 148
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From: Miami
Disregard the answer above.
All Airbus FBW have dual tillers, Airbus SOP's are that the PF taxi the A/C. There are several Airlines operating 100% Airbus SOP's; in that case when F/O is PF he starts the Engines, taxi to take-off and taxi after landing to the gate.
G
All Airbus FBW have dual tillers, Airbus SOP's are that the PF taxi the A/C. There are several Airlines operating 100% Airbus SOP's; in that case when F/O is PF he starts the Engines, taxi to take-off and taxi after landing to the gate.
G
Joined: Mar 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 1,370
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From: Moved beyond
The airline I work for has been doing it the way Guiones outlined above for over 10 years now, on Boeings and Airbus. The captain is ultimately still the boss (obviously) and signs all the paperwork, but when the FO is PF he/she runs the show to the maximum extent possible. That includes engine start and taxi to and from the gate.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 461
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From: A tropical island.
As mentioned above, it depends a lot on how the A/C is equipped, many airlines choose to delete (it is standard equipment) the tiller from the right side, since FOs can't be trusted and should not learn from experience (that last bit was sarcasm). I've never understood this mentality though, since in most cases the FOs are the future CAs, so they should be just as capable as CAs at flying and operating the aircraft. Command ability and judgement is what they should be developing in the right seat, not watching gauges.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,562
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From: I wouldn't know.
As far as i know standard equipment on the 737 is a tiller on the left side only, therefore the captain has to taxi. However during role reversal flights the FO can taxi as far as possible, tight turns and line ups have to be made by the captain though. Pulling into the gate has to be made by the captain at all times since all automatic docking guidance systems are calibrated for the left side only.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 256
Likes: 1
From: Netherlands
@KLM, all a/c, including 737's have tillers on the right, PF does the taxiing even if he is the fo.
Denti, sorry but have to disagree, not all docking centers are calibrated for the left side, plenty of systems which will show an arrow to move left or right. As a matter of fact, I see the old red/green line type docking center less and less.
In case of a left seat calibrated system, the captain will just say to steer a little left or right
Denti, sorry but have to disagree, not all docking centers are calibrated for the left side, plenty of systems which will show an arrow to move left or right. As a matter of fact, I see the old red/green line type docking center less and less.
In case of a left seat calibrated system, the captain will just say to steer a little left or right
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 60
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From: 31000FR
Quite a few Airbus operators deviate from AB procedures on this particular subject and let the captains only taxi.
Could it be that the most senior, influential and senile captains (often found in higher offices) find it too challenging to do different things on the outbound and the inbound leg, especially if flying only a few times a month?
Anyway, how much training does it take for the bright F/O to be able to taxi the little bird around once he moves over to the left seat?
Balance the risk/training value and pick your procedure......(F/O job satisfaction is a little bit like female orgasms...OK if not too much of a fuzz).
Could it be that the most senior, influential and senile captains (often found in higher offices) find it too challenging to do different things on the outbound and the inbound leg, especially if flying only a few times a month?
Anyway, how much training does it take for the bright F/O to be able to taxi the little bird around once he moves over to the left seat?
Balance the risk/training value and pick your procedure......(F/O job satisfaction is a little bit like female orgasms...OK if not too much of a fuzz).
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: ...way up north
We had a bit of argument about this when I was at a contract where the chief pilot let us, expats, decide if we wanted to follow company or AB SOP.
Best argument heard was one distinguished FC gentleman, pro, with oceans of experience asked one rather rigid not so old FC, con
-Do you let the FO tkof, cruise and maybe even land?
When he received an affirmative answer.
-But you cannot trust him/her to taxi at max 30 kts!?
Best argument heard was one distinguished FC gentleman, pro, with oceans of experience asked one rather rigid not so old FC, con
-Do you let the FO tkof, cruise and maybe even land?
When he received an affirmative answer.
-But you cannot trust him/her to taxi at max 30 kts!?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: ski slope
Lot of differences! Thanks!
How would you feel (Capts & F/Os) if the F/O taxies the a/c and the Capt monitors (much like the Monitored Approach used by CAL) the taxi as SOP? Would there be more or less runway incursions?
How would you feel (Capts & F/Os) if the F/O taxies the a/c and the Capt monitors (much like the Monitored Approach used by CAL) the taxi as SOP? Would there be more or less runway incursions?
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,525
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From: fl
It must cost a lot to install two tiller wheels. Why would anybody do it? For what reason? To make the FO feel good? The two recent clipping of wings in the US shows that with the captain taxiing things can go wrong, what if the new guy in the right seat is taxiing, what experience taxiing does he have and could he have done it better?
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
From: Miami
Why let them land, why let them take-off??? The side-stick and rudder pedals on the right also costs a lot of money!!!
When I give IOE at an airline to an upgraded F/O that does not let the F/O's taxi, it really shows and it takes time to get a good feeling taxiing and be smooth.
Also, very rare; but have you heard of tiller failure or Pilot incapacitation?
Btw, it is standard equipment on all Airbus FBW, NOT an option.
Look at the reasoning on olepilot's post, makes sense!!!
G
When I give IOE at an airline to an upgraded F/O that does not let the F/O's taxi, it really shows and it takes time to get a good feeling taxiing and be smooth.
Also, very rare; but have you heard of tiller failure or Pilot incapacitation?
Btw, it is standard equipment on all Airbus FBW, NOT an option.
Look at the reasoning on olepilot's post, makes sense!!!
G
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,339
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From: earth
As an AMT, the first aircraft I taxied was a 742 from the rt seat. Most large aircraft have that option. Having flown into many airports with narrow taxiways I feel this is a more of a safety measure (747 has poor ground vis) to allow the operator to give control to the one with the best visibility despite the above mentioned PF SOP's.