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F/O taxi procedures

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F/O taxi procedures

Old 23rd Jul 2011, 21:47
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F/O taxi procedures

What airlines allow the F/O to taxi the aircraft from the gate to the runway? Is it in the airline's operations manual? Is this a good idea?
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Old 23rd Jul 2011, 22:52
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None, currently, there is no steering tiller on the right. No steering, no taxi. Except maybe the A380, don't know there.

GF
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Old 23rd Jul 2011, 23:11
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Disregard the answer above.

All Airbus FBW have dual tillers, Airbus SOP's are that the PF taxi the A/C. There are several Airlines operating 100% Airbus SOP's; in that case when F/O is PF he starts the Engines, taxi to take-off and taxi after landing to the gate.

G
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Old 23rd Jul 2011, 23:21
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The airline I work for has been doing it the way Guiones outlined above for over 10 years now, on Boeings and Airbus. The captain is ultimately still the boss (obviously) and signs all the paperwork, but when the FO is PF he/she runs the show to the maximum extent possible. That includes engine start and taxi to and from the gate.
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Old 23rd Jul 2011, 23:22
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We have tillers on the fo's side at AJX, at least in the pax versions of the 767. When it is the fo's leg he does the whole thing from start to finish.
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Old 23rd Jul 2011, 23:28
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All Airbus FBW have dual tillers,
Sorry to say, WRONG.

Even the non FBW have it...
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Old 24th Jul 2011, 02:09
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Happy to say, I learn something everyday. Hard to believe, tho.

GF
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Old 24th Jul 2011, 05:27
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As mentioned above, it depends a lot on how the A/C is equipped, many airlines choose to delete (it is standard equipment) the tiller from the right side, since FOs can't be trusted and should not learn from experience (that last bit was sarcasm). I've never understood this mentality though, since in most cases the FOs are the future CAs, so they should be just as capable as CAs at flying and operating the aircraft. Command ability and judgement is what they should be developing in the right seat, not watching gauges.
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Old 24th Jul 2011, 06:04
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As far as i know standard equipment on the 737 is a tiller on the left side only, therefore the captain has to taxi. However during role reversal flights the FO can taxi as far as possible, tight turns and line ups have to be made by the captain though. Pulling into the gate has to be made by the captain at all times since all automatic docking guidance systems are calibrated for the left side only.
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Old 24th Jul 2011, 06:35
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First Officers, Taxiing, how irresponsible can you get !!!!!!



The Ghost of 411a is rolling over in his grave..



Seriously, I miss the old f*rt, these pages seem dull without him.
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Old 24th Jul 2011, 07:48
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@KLM, all a/c, including 737's have tillers on the right, PF does the taxiing even if he is the fo.

Denti, sorry but have to disagree, not all docking centers are calibrated for the left side, plenty of systems which will show an arrow to move left or right. As a matter of fact, I see the old red/green line type docking center less and less.

In case of a left seat calibrated system, the captain will just say to steer a little left or right
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Old 24th Jul 2011, 08:25
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Devil

Quite a few Airbus operators deviate from AB procedures on this particular subject and let the captains only taxi.

Could it be that the most senior, influential and senile captains (often found in higher offices) find it too challenging to do different things on the outbound and the inbound leg, especially if flying only a few times a month?

Anyway, how much training does it take for the bright F/O to be able to taxi the little bird around once he moves over to the left seat?

Balance the risk/training value and pick your procedure......(F/O job satisfaction is a little bit like female orgasms...OK if not too much of a fuzz).
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Old 24th Jul 2011, 09:58
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Atlas/Polar in the 747
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Old 24th Jul 2011, 14:52
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We had a bit of argument about this when I was at a contract where the chief pilot let us, expats, decide if we wanted to follow company or AB SOP.
Best argument heard was one distinguished FC gentleman, pro, with oceans of experience asked one rather rigid not so old FC, con
-Do you let the FO tkof, cruise and maybe even land?
When he received an affirmative answer.
-But you cannot trust him/her to taxi at max 30 kts!?
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Old 24th Jul 2011, 14:57
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Im FO on 777 and taxi my sectors, captain takes over if the guidance on stand is aligned to the LHS
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Old 25th Jul 2011, 00:39
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Lot of differences! Thanks!
How would you feel (Capts & F/Os) if the F/O taxies the a/c and the Capt monitors (much like the Monitored Approach used by CAL) the taxi as SOP? Would there be more or less runway incursions?
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Old 25th Jul 2011, 01:00
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It must cost a lot to install two tiller wheels. Why would anybody do it? For what reason? To make the FO feel good? The two recent clipping of wings in the US shows that with the captain taxiing things can go wrong, what if the new guy in the right seat is taxiing, what experience taxiing does he have and could he have done it better?
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Old 25th Jul 2011, 02:49
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Why let them land, why let them take-off??? The side-stick and rudder pedals on the right also costs a lot of money!!!

When I give IOE at an airline to an upgraded F/O that does not let the F/O's taxi, it really shows and it takes time to get a good feeling taxiing and be smooth.

Also, very rare; but have you heard of tiller failure or Pilot incapacitation?

Btw, it is standard equipment on all Airbus FBW, NOT an option.

Look at the reasoning on olepilot's post, makes sense!!!

G
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Old 25th Jul 2011, 03:01
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Yes, I know the fo's are pilots too but why do we want them to taxi? Is it because they want to be in control from biginning of taxi to take off......WHY?
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Old 25th Jul 2011, 03:04
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As an AMT, the first aircraft I taxied was a 742 from the rt seat. Most large aircraft have that option. Having flown into many airports with narrow taxiways I feel this is a more of a safety measure (747 has poor ground vis) to allow the operator to give control to the one with the best visibility despite the above mentioned PF SOP's.
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