Tech Log not signed by Inbound Captain
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From: in the flight deck
Tech Log not signed by Inbound Captain
Is it acceptable ( in your company ) for the out-bound commander to sign on-behalf of the inbound captain who has forgottten to sign off the tech log?
What is the "normal" procedure in most ( or all ) airlines regarding this issue?
We had this few nights ago but luckily the commander was still at the airport carpark.
I'm just thinking....what he'd left and you can't get hold of him....?
Many thanks.
What is the "normal" procedure in most ( or all ) airlines regarding this issue?
We had this few nights ago but luckily the commander was still at the airport carpark.
I'm just thinking....what he'd left and you can't get hold of him....?
Many thanks.
Joined: May 2009
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From: sfo
In my outfit, we deal with that possibility by maintenance staff meeting every arrival, debriefing at the flight deck door, and verifying together that the log has been signed. The reverse when the aircraft is turned, verifying the release signature. Has the side benefit of better maintenance coverage.
Joined: Aug 2009
Aviation Qualifications: Military
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From: Texas
In my outfit, we deal with that possibility by maintenance staff meeting every arrival, debriefing at the flight deck door, and verifying together that the log has been signed. The reverse when the aircraft is turned, verifying the release signature.
Has the side benefit of better maintenance coverage.
Has the side benefit of better maintenance coverage.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
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From: UK
I suppose, legally speaking, only the commander can sign the tech log since he/she is certifying that any defects have been entered or "nil" as the case may be and that the times and details of the last sector are correct.
If the FO is dispatched to do any post flight paperwork and no engineers meet the a/c then there is a possibility that the Commander may omit to append the tech log and/or even turn the emergency exits lights off and/or the battery.
Normal practice is that the FO monitors the Captain. In the case where there are no engineers to meet the a/c then maybe it is prudent to retain the FO at the a/c to confirm/crosscheck that important post flight actions have been completed correctly. Otherwise it's all down to one guy and the human being who never makes a mistake or omission has yet to be invented.
However, I feel that from a practical point of view so long as the Commander can be contacted by phone to confirm the arrival details there is no reason why he shouldn't delegate the entry/signature to a responsible person.
If the FO is dispatched to do any post flight paperwork and no engineers meet the a/c then there is a possibility that the Commander may omit to append the tech log and/or even turn the emergency exits lights off and/or the battery.
Normal practice is that the FO monitors the Captain. In the case where there are no engineers to meet the a/c then maybe it is prudent to retain the FO at the a/c to confirm/crosscheck that important post flight actions have been completed correctly. Otherwise it's all down to one guy and the human being who never makes a mistake or omission has yet to be invented.
However, I feel that from a practical point of view so long as the Commander can be contacted by phone to confirm the arrival details there is no reason why he shouldn't delegate the entry/signature to a responsible person.
Joined: Feb 1998
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From: Formerly of Nam
Varies from outfit to outfit.
In one company I worked for, if the errant captain couldn't be
contacted the next captain could sign it provided a full preflight
was conducted and the LAME was also satisfied nothing further
was wrong with the thing. Tea and stale scones were provided
for the errant captain in the CP's office next afternoon if a long
delay was incurred (ie found something wrong). A phone call
was acceptable but if the same erranter did it two more times
during his employ he was eating stale scones.
In my current mob no one dares leave a tech log unsigned, as
he'll be dragged back out to sign it and then fined (ie a hefty
chunk of $$$ deducted from next pay), an amount depending
on how long the flight was delayed. A phoning is unacceptable,
and he will incur a fine unless he's found to be dead in the car
park.
In one company I worked for, if the errant captain couldn't be
contacted the next captain could sign it provided a full preflight
was conducted and the LAME was also satisfied nothing further
was wrong with the thing. Tea and stale scones were provided
for the errant captain in the CP's office next afternoon if a long
delay was incurred (ie found something wrong). A phone call
was acceptable but if the same erranter did it two more times
during his employ he was eating stale scones.
In my current mob no one dares leave a tech log unsigned, as
he'll be dragged back out to sign it and then fined (ie a hefty
chunk of $$$ deducted from next pay), an amount depending
on how long the flight was delayed. A phoning is unacceptable,
and he will incur a fine unless he's found to be dead in the car
park.
Last edited by Slasher; 22nd July 2011 at 09:37. Reason: As per BOAC's note below....
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: On your right Skipper
Good question..... I'd better go ask my captain next time . I have no idea what our policy is on this.........
But...why can't the skipper who is taking over sign for it ( after a phone call to the other guy ) ? Not allowed?
And from the thread it seems each co. has a different procedure.
But...why can't the skipper who is taking over sign for it ( after a phone call to the other guy ) ? Not allowed?
And from the thread it seems each co. has a different procedure.
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: UK
If the outgoing Capt can be contacted, he will be asked to return to the a/c and sign the tech log.
If he can't return, a verbal debrief will be carried out and a local engineer will sign the tech log on the basis of the verbal debrief.
If the Capt is not contactable, the same process will be carried out with the FO.
If neither crew member is available, the local engineer will conduct a daily inspection prior to dispatch, and the incoming crew will conduct a full PDI and have the fuel contents verified by dipping the tanks.
It happens from time to time.
If he can't return, a verbal debrief will be carried out and a local engineer will sign the tech log on the basis of the verbal debrief.
If the Capt is not contactable, the same process will be carried out with the FO.
If neither crew member is available, the local engineer will conduct a daily inspection prior to dispatch, and the incoming crew will conduct a full PDI and have the fuel contents verified by dipping the tanks.
It happens from time to time.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
Likes: 8
From: UK
Retired now, so I can confess.
I found the best policy was to forge the previous captain's signature.
Got you a free beer when you next met him downroute!!!
I found the best policy was to forge the previous captain's signature.
Got you a free beer when you next met him downroute!!!
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 34
From: London,England
I found the best policy was to forge the previous captain's signature.
The problem, and one that does require contact with the previous skipper or an engineer to sort, is if the technical state (new defect or nil further) has not been recorded.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 451
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From: Scotland
You can always work round that one - the real screw up is the flight engineer dropping the Tech Log in his flight bag and going to the hotel! Happened to me twice - searched the cockpit for about 30 min then waited until the crew bus would have reached the hotel,found out the f/e still had it then got it sent back by taxi - same idiot did it again a few days later.
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Now at Home
All replies sounds good in general and obviously most of you are in a "comfortabel" position to have maintenance (own or contracted) on each airport
What would you do if you haven't, because unluckily you fly for very low cost, maybe eastern europe charter company or so and on top of that the incoming Cpt is not reachable
I expect the incoming and not signing Cpt should have a cup of coffee without biscuits with the D.O. at least, for making "heavy trouble" for the outgoing crew, because with not log book entry, just blank on the "report" coloumn and no signature what shall we do........ can we asume the incoming forgot to write just NIL, or he/she forgot to make an entry at all
What would you do if you haven't, because unluckily you fly for very low cost, maybe eastern europe charter company or so and on top of that the incoming Cpt is not reachable
I expect the incoming and not signing Cpt should have a cup of coffee without biscuits with the D.O. at least, for making "heavy trouble" for the outgoing crew, because with not log book entry, just blank on the "report" coloumn and no signature what shall we do........ can we asume the incoming forgot to write just NIL, or he/she forgot to make an entry at all
