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AF 447 Search to resume (part2)

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AF 447 Search to resume (part2)

Old 1st May 2011, 20:17
  #441 (permalink)  
 
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CSMU of SSFDR

Nick L,

Please comment on:

http://www51.honeywell.com/aero/comm...er_(SSFDR).pdf

Rgds,

Mac
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:23
  #442 (permalink)  
 
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CSMU of 4700 SSFDR

Nick L,

Please inform the url links to clarify the issue!

Rgds,

Mac
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:28
  #443 (permalink)  
 
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Has anyone else spotted that in the bottom left hand corner of this BEA picture from the ship's control centre, on the floor next to the operator there is an FDR in a case?

http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol....mages/fdr3.jpg

Is this simply to show what they are looking for?
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:29
  #444 (permalink)  
 
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Centrosphere

Re. the former suggestions of picture alteration please notice from this and this picture that they share some properties with the earlier picture of the FDR chassis:

- a clear difference in color tint between the blueish left side and the greenish right side of the picture, with the border line running roughly diagonally. This suggests that the ROV's searchlight lamps are of different color temperature (and intensity).

- On the right-hand screen shown in the second picture, the center of the picture has low contrast and shows few features ("vanishing shadows effect") while out to the sides there are more shadows and more pronounced contrasts. Just as in the picture of the FDR chassis.

Conclusion: The equipment is not 100% perfect, but there is little to suggest any special editing of the earlier image.

Just my 2 cents
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:30
  #445 (permalink)  
 
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Your link is from a COMBI

Henra,

https://commerce.honeywell.com/wcsstore/B2BDirectMyAerospaceAssetStore/images/catalog/SSFDR_800x800.jpg


Read the label in the box!

Digital voice data recorder (combi)

AF447 used the LONG model. This is the short one.

Mac
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:30
  #446 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jcjeant View Post
Why stir an empty pot
I plead guilty. It was sarcastic
Let's say it's a way of preemptively couper l'herbe sous le pied of conspirationnists.
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:33
  #447 (permalink)  
 
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Guilty too !!

I was in the same mood as AlphaZuluRomeo
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:36
  #448 (permalink)  
 
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RR_NDB,
That was the data sheet I was referring to. On Figure 1, the annotated drawing shows "ED-55/56a Crash Survivable Memory Unit (CSMU) (1X or 2X model)". That indicates to me that the CSMU depicted in that drawing is representative only of a 1X or 2X model SSFDR.

If we go to Section 8.0, we see that they have described the "4X" model SSFDR, with part numbers 980-4700-04X. This is presumably a newer model of SSFDR than what is shown in the diagram. According to the BEA reports, this is the type of SSFDR that was aboard F-GZCP. It is possible that the Honeywell data sheet is not fully up to date (it is dated March 2000) as there are no diagrams for the "4X" SSFDR.


If we take a look at the Brazilian authorities' report into the Gol 1907/N600XL collision here:
http://www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/Brazil-...sh_version.pdf

(I know I keep harping on about the Gol mid-air collision, but it was the most recent accident for which I knew what the FDR looked like)

In section 3.11, "Flight Recorders", on pages 62 and 63, we see in Table 14 that both PR-GTD and N600XL were equipped with the same, Honeywell model 980-4700-042, recorders as F-GZCP. The photos of the SSFDRs (Figures 16 and 17) from both aircraft show cylindrical CSMUs, which match what the BEA recovered.

Last edited by Nick L; 1st May 2011 at 20:47.
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:40
  #449 (permalink)  
 
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Henra and Nick L,

Look:

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Old 1st May 2011, 20:43
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Has anyone noticed the attachment points for the brackets holding the now missing ULB!

The pic below has been cropped from the BEA's high resolution image. I assume that the tensile strength of the attachment bolts is designed so that failure will occur without internal damage to the container.

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Old 1st May 2011, 20:43
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CSMU geometries

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Old 1st May 2011, 20:46
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@ RR_NDB

Please take a look at this picture from the BEA website (here : Information, 27 avril 2011 - FR version, EN briefing also available)

The HiRes pic allows us to read what's written on the right side of the "chassis" :
SOLID STATE MEMORY FLIGHT DATA RECORDER.

So what ?
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:46
  #453 (permalink)  
 
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CSMU

I assume that the tensile strength of the attachment bolts is designed so that failure will occur without internal damage to the container.
For sure!

Question: Is this a CSMU of a FDR or CVR?
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:52
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I hope they weigh the module and very carefully record its serial numbers before popping it into the Court representative's sealed satchel for transport back to France. That would give some idea of the state of the contents and help deflect potential conspiracy theorists.

Good job on the part of the recovery crew.

After seeing the beat up DFDR chassis with the missing memory module, I was not too surprised by the missing pinger. But the design needs rethinking. For Sure!
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:55
  #455 (permalink)  
 
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RR_NDB
Question: Is this a CSMU of a FDR or CVR?
I thought you "knew" which it was.
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:56
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Originally Posted by RR_NDB View Post
Henra,

https://commerce.honeywell.com/wcsstore/B2BDirectMyAerospaceAssetStore/images/catalog/SSFDR_800x800.jpg


Read the label in the box!

Digital voice data recorder (combi)

AF447 used the LONG model. This is the short one.

Mac

Yes, in the meantime I have seen it myself.



Still, I'm convinced that the more square shaped CSMu are simply older generation and that CVR and DFDR share the same type of CSMU.
Back in 'net fishing for pics...

Edit:

At least I found a pic of the CSMU on the Honeywell page.
The most recent ones seem to be cylindrical and they describe it as memory for the SSFDR.
Solid State Flight Data Recorder - Honeywell Aerospace
Could be still a wrong image though.
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Old 1st May 2011, 20:57
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FDR

Has anybody noticed the third picture released today from BEA actually has a FDR on the floor in the bottom left of the image. (In a glass case)
http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol....mages/fdr3.jpg

Perhaps this was an example for them to see what they were looking for, or is this the actual recovered item?
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Old 1st May 2011, 21:03
  #458 (permalink)  
 
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Snowfalcon2,

The equipment is not 100% perfect, but there is little to suggest any special editing of the earlier image.
Yes, I do agree that these new samples show many similarities to the older one. I think we can put the image manipulation theory to rest for a while.
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Old 1st May 2011, 21:04
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Sample . . .

Swedishflyingkiwi,

Must be a sample. Note the paper in the container, under the unit. It would be kept in water if a recovered unit.
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Old 1st May 2011, 21:09
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What happens next?

Will the Ile de Sein steam to nearest port to offload the FDR CSMU or will the BEA try to extract the data while on the ship?

Will they continue search for the CVR, or is the FDR important enough for the ship to head for port? Or are there other ships in the area that can transport the FDR ashore?

I guess the site is far enough offshore that a helicopter is not of much use.
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