Go around for Airbus driver

[michelda]

Hy guys,

this is the situation:
go around single engine. At which altitude can I start to accelerate to green dot?

I think there is some confusion......at least on my brain

Michelda

[FatFlyer]

I think that depends on your company procedure and performance, it used to default to 1500 or 1000 feet aal unless modified, but now airbus recommend when single engine, to accelerate at the go around stop altitude (unless there is an intermediate stop when you may use that as the acceleration altitude)
Unlike when on two engines, it does not go from SRS to CLMB at the FMGC performance page set altitude, but will stay in SRS till ALT* or you push VS zero.

[michelda]

Hy FatFlyer

In my company, we accelerate at the first stop altitude (and I think is a good idea), but every time that a new pilot join us is always the same story......

Do you have an airbus presentation or airbus bulletin or fcom refer etc explaining that they recommend this procedure?

How can your company evaluate, during a go around, that you will maintain 2,5% if you level off at 1000 or 1500'?

thanks for your help
Michelda

[9.G]

it all depends on what you follow being SE michelda, if you follow published MA then it should be either MSA or the the first level off ALT, if you follow SE MA then it can be either lowest QNH ALT or highest TOGA ALT.

[michelda]

Hy 9.G

On your charts are published two missed approach, 1 for 2 engines and 1 for single engine??

Michelda

[9.G]

michelda, I use regular Jeppesen charts which doesn't preclude me from doing the homework. Hope you're doing yours.

[michelda]

Sure, but do you have a company policy?

In my company, we follow always ( except if go around gradient is more than 2.5) missed approach and we accelerate at first alt.

Your company?

[9.G]

sure we do, I'll sum it up:
follow published MA if you can comply with the requirements SE, level off ALT either MSA or the first level off ALT. That you must do in normal config as well.
VMC avoid obstacles visually.
All other cases or whenever in doubt follow SE MA which is most of the time equal to EO SID.

[FatFlyer]

Hi,
Sorry I don't have manuals with me but I think it might be the flight crew training manual, or it might just be a company procedure.
The 2.5 percent is only required for second segment (as on take off) which usually ends before 1500 feet. If a higher gradient is required, there might be a higher MDA (DA) published on the approach chart if unable to make the required gradient.(eg Dalaman)or a higher gradient specified. The LPC calculates (F5) missed approach gradients which are usually well above 2.5. (not sure about A321). The chart may also specify a minimum height for level acceleration(eg Marseille) Or maybe a special procedure when single engine if unable to clear obstacles (Innsbruck)

[Neupielot]

The LPC calculates (F5) missed approach gradients which are usually well above 2.5. (not sure about A321). The chart may also specify a minimum height for level acceleration(eg Marseille) Or maybe a special procedure when single engine if unable to clear obstacles (Innsbruck)

Hi,
When using the LPC Landing function to calculate climb gradients, is the climb gradient given for 2 engines or single engine?
i think i've seen this before ( can't remember where ), where there are 2 MDA depending on climb gradients, but i'm not sure how to determine the climb gradients.

[michelda]

Hy Fatflier

During go around, you have to maintain a gradient of 2,5%, but is not reported until which altitude you have to maintain it. It means, in my idea, that you have to maintain it until the first altitude.
What do you think?

During a immediate relanding in Dalaman do you take you pc for calculation?
I think you have also another method

Michelda

[Superpilot]

Was taught to accelerate at 1,500ft AAL, but then on my last LPC, TRE asked why I didn't just continue all the way to 5,000ft (first stop altitude)? So clearly a big divide out there.

The real answer is of course one of common sense and airfield dependant. You might not want to be levelling off waiting for green dot if heavy and S.E when there's a few mountains in the way. As with most choices made in the sim - they become routine without reason.

[guiones]

Airbus defaults the ENG INOP level off altitude to 1500' AGL but leaves the option open for Airlines to use their own level off altitude, that is why you can change it on the PERF page, I have seen it as low as 800' AGL on certain ENG OUT OUT PROC.

The following comes from the Airbus FCTM:


ONE ENGINE INOPERATIVE GO-AROUND
Applicable to: ALL
A one engine inoperative go-around is similar to that flown with all engines. On the application of
TOGA, rudder must be applied promptly to compensate for the increase in thrust and consequently
to keep the beta target centered. Provided the flap lever is selected to Flap 1 or greater, SRS will
engage and will be followed. If SRS is not available, the initial target pitch attitude is 12.5 °. The
lateral FD mode will be GA TRK (or NAV if option installed) and this must be considered with respect
to terrain clearance. ALT should be selected at the engine inoperative acceleration altitude, with
the flap retraction and further climb carried out using the same technique as described in
"ENGINE FAILURE AFTER V1" section.

Here is the reference"ENGINE FAILURE AFTER V1":

ACCELERATION SEGMENT
At the engine-out acceleration altitude, push ALT to level off (or set V/S =0) and allow the speed
to increase. If the aircraft is being flown manually, the PF should remember that, as airspeed
increases, the rudder input needed to keep the beta target centred will reduce. Retract the flaps as normal. When the flap lever is at zero, the beta target reverts to the normal sideslip
indication.

G

[michelda]

Hy Guiones,

I think single engine acc alt on perf pages is only a display number......it means that you can insert whatever you want, but airplane "will do" nothing at that altitude.

Usually company flight single engine proc in case of go around single engine
only in particular cases like go around gradient greater than standard one.

What about your company policy?

Michelda

[guiones]

The altitude inserted or defaulted is for reference only.

My SOP's are 1500' AGL for T/O and G/A ENG faiure.

In case of steep gradients or obstacles, an EO SID is developed.

G

[shortfuel]

Originally Posted by Michelda

During go around, you have to maintain a gradient of 2,5%, but is not reported until which altitude you have to maintain it. It means, in my idea, that you have to maintain it until the first altitude.

ICAO Doc 8168 can give you some pointers about this.
To make it short: in any Missed Approach area construction, it is assumed that the acceleration segment may commence at the end of the intermediate phase of the missed approach. It is actually not very simple for pilots to identify that phase but it usually matches the major turn altitude (if any...) in the missed approach proc.

So if your MA Proc specify a turn of more than 15° at a certain altitude, you may accelerate at this altitude without problem, you are protected.
If your MA proc is a straight track...well in that case, it is hard to guess where your acc segment may start.

On some particular airports, acc segment altitudes are clearly defined in the MA briefing strip.

Bear in mind that your aircraft is certified to climb at 2.5% during G/A with OEI. If the runway requires more than 2.5%, performance penalty may apply, then LPC is your friend!

[9.G]

to start with: in IAP designed as per PANS-OPS 4 the acceleration segment criteria have been deleted, as formerly published in ICAO Document 8168, Volume II, First, Second and Third Editions, furthermore MAP specifies a point where the missed approach begins, and a point or an altitude/height where it ends. 2,5% (unless otherwise specified) must be achieved throughout the whole procedure till the final phase which begins at the point where 50m (164 ft) obstacle clearance is first obtained and can be maintained. It extends to the point where a new approach, holding or a return to en-route flight is initiated.

IOW SE acceleration ALT should be adjusted in accordance with the procedure flown:
published MA is predicated on maintaining the published MA climb gradient till the final phase and it's operators responsibility to cater for SE case.
In case you follow EO SID the acceleration isn't a big deal as the TOGA limitation has been taken into account and obstacle clearance is assured.

avoiding obstacles by visual means during missed approach is self-explanatory.

there's more cases requiring very particular attention and understanding like rejected landing or overweight landing etc.