QANTAS A380 Uncontained failure.
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I read recently that Qantas are hoping to return the plane to service. I seem to remember some discussion in the first part of this thread before it was restarted in the Tech log that this would be impossible.
Can anyone point me to a discussion of how this is going to be accomplished?
Maybe it is in this 2nd part - I haven't had the chance to read the thread yet - I didn't realise that the thread had "moved".
Can anyone point me to a discussion of how this is going to be accomplished?
Maybe it is in this 2nd part - I haven't had the chance to read the thread yet - I didn't realise that the thread had "moved".
T
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I posted (in the original thread) that based on available photos, the hole in the front spar web left the spar caps intact, and thus a temporary repair appeared feasible. This would permit ferrying the bird back to Toulouse where permanent restoration could be done.
The elephant in the room (
) is the restoration cost versus the market value of the repaired ship (as well as the QF reputation for never writing off an active ship).
The elephant in the room (
) is the restoration cost versus the market value of the repaired ship (as well as the QF reputation for never writing off an active ship).
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barit1, DERG, and all,
It won't cost Qantas a penny, unless they want to outbid the JunkMan, to 'salvage' their dubious Hull record.
Four New/As New "C" mod T972 on Rolls, a spar, skin, and systems freshen-up, and off we go. Erm.......Off you go.
I do believe Rolls should pay in Cash for the removal of the 468 brown stains on the upholstery. And new knickers for the CC.
Wait, there may be more than one per each. There were after all, TWO BANGS.
It won't cost Qantas a penny, unless they want to outbid the JunkMan, to 'salvage' their dubious Hull record.
Four New/As New "C" mod T972 on Rolls, a spar, skin, and systems freshen-up, and off we go. Erm.......Off you go.
I do believe Rolls should pay in Cash for the removal of the 468 brown stains on the upholstery. And new knickers for the CC.
Wait, there may be more than one per each. There were after all, TWO BANGS.
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Bearfoil
The current CEO, a psychologist graduate, of RR leaves the company at the end of March. He did a hell of a good job. The new guy is an accountant fresh from a job overseeing a retail operation in Belgium. He should be able to add up, but there is no guarantee that the Bayesians will be booted back to the race track where they belong.
He certainly will be busy, creatively hiding the costs within the bounds of company law. It will be his responsibility to regain the once proud name of Rolls Royce.
The current CEO, a psychologist graduate, of RR leaves the company at the end of March. He did a hell of a good job. The new guy is an accountant fresh from a job overseeing a retail operation in Belgium. He should be able to add up, but there is no guarantee that the Bayesians will be booted back to the race track where they belong.
He certainly will be busy, creatively hiding the costs within the bounds of company law. It will be his responsibility to regain the once proud name of Rolls Royce.
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Some questions, maybe slightly off topic, maybe not:
Why is it that the most prominent UK engineering company goes outside the firm to bring in top leadership and who's education and background has nothing to do with the complex engineering product being designed, produced and sold? Is there not a path to the top for a bright, well rounded engineer to be groomed for the top position within the firm?
Just curious...
Why is it that the most prominent UK engineering company goes outside the firm to bring in top leadership and who's education and background has nothing to do with the complex engineering product being designed, produced and sold? Is there not a path to the top for a bright, well rounded engineer to be groomed for the top position within the firm?
Just curious...
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The Board
This is a true story.
Looking for a replacement CEO, the Board recruited via sub contract with a "Head Firm". Interviews went well, and an excellent choice was made, by unanimous and robust approval. Contract was discussed, entered, and the New Man was invited back to the Boardroom for a welcome and Scotch.
When the new CEO was invited to stand up and address the Board, he led with a question:
"What, Exactly, do you folks build, here?"
This is a true story.
Looking for a replacement CEO, the Board recruited via sub contract with a "Head Firm". Interviews went well, and an excellent choice was made, by unanimous and robust approval. Contract was discussed, entered, and the New Man was invited back to the Boardroom for a welcome and Scotch.
When the new CEO was invited to stand up and address the Board, he led with a question:
"What, Exactly, do you folks build, here?"
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TURBINE D
Objectively: There are 14 directors on the board of Rolls Royce. Nine of them have a social science background, one is a chemist, one an an academic engineer, two are vocational RR lifelong engineers. One is from management of United Airlines in the U.S. who gained a business degree.
So we have two guys here who could do any job on the shop floor and do it well. The most academically qualified is Colin P Smith.
Board of Directors - Rolls-Royce
So how come Colin P Smith does not have his hands on the reigns?
Now we go into my subjective reasons why after WW2 the engineers were not well regarded by the guys who had the money: the City of London and the Bankers.
1. The allies won WW2. The UK relaxed.
2. The UK education system after the WW2 was tripartheid. There was the private sector, the academic schools for about 10% of public school kids and another school for the other 90% of kids who did not get the scholarship. 5% of the population went on to university. The privately educated kids were the same mix...but they had a lot of input..this is the "oxford accented" and "old boy" network that led the UK after WW2. Of course a lot of them were not particularly gifted individuals but they had the right accents and talked well.
3. The education system has been a "political football" since 1965. The net effect is that we do not have the support structure in engineering.
4. Culture: beliefs and values. Engineering was not valued in many of the public academic schools and the facilities in these schools was poor to promote craft skills. So engineering became unfashionable.
5. The routes upward for talented shop floor workers were through the "technical colleges" and back in the 1960s and 1970s this was a route many sought and won. Colin P Smith is one such example. Entered at age 18 and went through this system. Looks like he hit the very heights of what was possible too..lots of solid balck type after his name.
6. Rewards. The pay for someone like Colin P Smith at age 18 would have been something like £38 per week. The team of 20 or so practical shop floor engineers he led would have been around £300 per week. This would have been for about a 45 hour week.
7. This was in the UK only. If you look at the UK it is on the edge of Europe and an island of some 55 million people. After WW2 the only competitor the UK had to manufactured goods was the USA..and we still have an export/import charge that hangs on today as a remnant.
8. Business culture. As one young commercial manager said to me when I was around 30 years old: "The trick DERG is to sell people fresh air..thats the secret". That memory remains with me.
9. As the post war years rolled on the City of London became a haven for companies from the USA who wanted a foot in the European market and were keen to adopt the methods of the USA in "wealth creation" The UK was an ideal place to make things because the labour was relatively cheap and the new methods were automated. Beacause the UK is an island the economy and labour markets were effectively trapped and the business managers took advantage. The "suit" became the icon. The coverall was altogether frowned upon.
10. Economics Because of the reasons above and the oil price increase the UK was bust by 1972. In Feb 1971 RR went bust but was restarted with tax payers money just as Airbus was founded. The City of London recovered and continued investing in service industries. Engineering was seen as "high risk" as the Japanese and German products became popular.
11. The net effect: the UK became a finance clearing house. If you wanted to be successful in life then engineering was not high on the list. That is why today we have only two or three people on the board of Rolls Royce Aerospace who are true engineers.
This subjective analysis SHOULD cause plenty of you to comment, all replies welcome
Objectively: There are 14 directors on the board of Rolls Royce. Nine of them have a social science background, one is a chemist, one an an academic engineer, two are vocational RR lifelong engineers. One is from management of United Airlines in the U.S. who gained a business degree.
So we have two guys here who could do any job on the shop floor and do it well. The most academically qualified is Colin P Smith.
Board of Directors - Rolls-Royce
So how come Colin P Smith does not have his hands on the reigns?
Now we go into my subjective reasons why after WW2 the engineers were not well regarded by the guys who had the money: the City of London and the Bankers.
1. The allies won WW2. The UK relaxed.
2. The UK education system after the WW2 was tripartheid. There was the private sector, the academic schools for about 10% of public school kids and another school for the other 90% of kids who did not get the scholarship. 5% of the population went on to university. The privately educated kids were the same mix...but they had a lot of input..this is the "oxford accented" and "old boy" network that led the UK after WW2. Of course a lot of them were not particularly gifted individuals but they had the right accents and talked well.
3. The education system has been a "political football" since 1965. The net effect is that we do not have the support structure in engineering.
4. Culture: beliefs and values. Engineering was not valued in many of the public academic schools and the facilities in these schools was poor to promote craft skills. So engineering became unfashionable.
5. The routes upward for talented shop floor workers were through the "technical colleges" and back in the 1960s and 1970s this was a route many sought and won. Colin P Smith is one such example. Entered at age 18 and went through this system. Looks like he hit the very heights of what was possible too..lots of solid balck type after his name.
6. Rewards. The pay for someone like Colin P Smith at age 18 would have been something like £38 per week. The team of 20 or so practical shop floor engineers he led would have been around £300 per week. This would have been for about a 45 hour week.
7. This was in the UK only. If you look at the UK it is on the edge of Europe and an island of some 55 million people. After WW2 the only competitor the UK had to manufactured goods was the USA..and we still have an export/import charge that hangs on today as a remnant.
8. Business culture. As one young commercial manager said to me when I was around 30 years old: "The trick DERG is to sell people fresh air..thats the secret". That memory remains with me.
9. As the post war years rolled on the City of London became a haven for companies from the USA who wanted a foot in the European market and were keen to adopt the methods of the USA in "wealth creation" The UK was an ideal place to make things because the labour was relatively cheap and the new methods were automated. Beacause the UK is an island the economy and labour markets were effectively trapped and the business managers took advantage. The "suit" became the icon. The coverall was altogether frowned upon.
10. Economics Because of the reasons above and the oil price increase the UK was bust by 1972. In Feb 1971 RR went bust but was restarted with tax payers money just as Airbus was founded. The City of London recovered and continued investing in service industries. Engineering was seen as "high risk" as the Japanese and German products became popular.
11. The net effect: the UK became a finance clearing house. If you wanted to be successful in life then engineering was not high on the list. That is why today we have only two or three people on the board of Rolls Royce Aerospace who are true engineers.
This subjective analysis SHOULD cause plenty of you to comment, all replies welcome
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Hope this is on topic enough.
Geely Automobile Holdings Limited
It is the board of directors of Geely the Chinese firm that now builds the iconic London Black Cab--and lots of other things.
I've never seen so many Doctors and professors of engineering in one place. Make of it what you will.
Just my two cents worth.
Geely Automobile Holdings Limited
It is the board of directors of Geely the Chinese firm that now builds the iconic London Black Cab--and lots of other things.
I've never seen so many Doctors and professors of engineering in one place. Make of it what you will.
Just my two cents worth.
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Global Shifts
Yes indeed Flapping Madly. So if so much manufacturing is going away from us in the "west" why should we be so worried about engineers anyway? Do we need them at all? The blue collar skilled worker is under threat unless he is prepared to be itinerant. Perhaps Rolls Royce has got the right mix on the management board after all...perhaps they think that Rolls Royce is like any other manufacturing company..they could just upsticks and relocate anywhere...who knows?
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I remember our previous PM giving a speech from Clydeside saying how proud he was to be giving the speech from a place with such a great engineering past.
This is honestly not a political point - the thought that ran through my head was why are we not as a nation ashamed that ship building / civil aircraft manufacture etc are things of the past in this country? and why is it that only foreign companies can make money manufacturing cars in this country?
I know of graduate engineers who cannot find a job - we should be ashamed that industry and manufacturing have such low esteem.
rant over
This is honestly not a political point - the thought that ran through my head was why are we not as a nation ashamed that ship building / civil aircraft manufacture etc are things of the past in this country? and why is it that only foreign companies can make money manufacturing cars in this country?
I know of graduate engineers who cannot find a job - we should be ashamed that industry and manufacturing have such low esteem.
rant over
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New RR Engines
My thanks to KEESJE for this post:
RR is working on new Open Rotor Technology for 3 years, with full scale demonstrators in the not to distant future. A third round of windtunnel test will start soon. They say they solved noise issues.
FARNBOROUGH: R-R urges Airbus. Boeing to reconsider narrowbody re-engining plans
Anyway it seems more A320NEO orders in the not to distant future, AirAsia, Jetstar and Lufthansa.
Lufthansa, Airbus Said to Negotiate $2.5 Billion Plane Order - Bloomberg
Jetstar Evaluating Airbus NEO | AVIATION WEEK
Keesje is your man for thus stuff..Thank You!
RR is working on new Open Rotor Technology for 3 years, with full scale demonstrators in the not to distant future. A third round of windtunnel test will start soon. They say they solved noise issues.
FARNBOROUGH: R-R urges Airbus. Boeing to reconsider narrowbody re-engining plans
Anyway it seems more A320NEO orders in the not to distant future, AirAsia, Jetstar and Lufthansa.
Lufthansa, Airbus Said to Negotiate $2.5 Billion Plane Order - Bloomberg
Jetstar Evaluating Airbus NEO | AVIATION WEEK
Keesje is your man for thus stuff..Thank You!
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Why is it that the most prominent UK engineering company goes outside the firm to bring in top leadership and who's education and background has nothing to do with the complex engineering product being designed, produced and sold? Is there not a path to the top for a bright, well rounded engineer to be groomed for the top position within the firm?
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The Case of Rolls-Royce plc
Some very interesting comments and observations to my original question, thanks!
Here is an interesting read. The pendulum swings from one side to the other over the past 40 year, maybe?
http://www.econ.uniurb.it/siepi/dec0...s/lazonick.pdf
Here is an interesting read. The pendulum swings from one side to the other over the past 40 year, maybe?
http://www.econ.uniurb.it/siepi/dec0...s/lazonick.pdf
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I have made a study of Leadership at the Commercial level for the last two years, among friends and colleagues.
I prefer to start with the straightforward and simple view. If it is correct, no time is lost making things complex or difficult to explain.
The Leader: Tell your People what you want, and how long they have to produce.
The Manager: Tell your people what the Leader said, and explain to your people how to do it.
It is not more complicated than that.
The Man responsible for such a "Naive" view?? Patton.
The civilized world has begun (?) to believe its own nonsense, that work can be done simply by "Asking" and believing the result will be stellar.
The Drift away from Individual excellence into murky collective "Consensus" started with Marx. It has travelled unabated since the mid 1850's, with few sparks of brilliance to thwart its lurch back into the Stone Age.
"One CANNOT strengthen the Weak by Weakening the Strong..." (Lincoln).
The Barometer of Failure is an excess of money.
I prefer to start with the straightforward and simple view. If it is correct, no time is lost making things complex or difficult to explain.
The Leader: Tell your People what you want, and how long they have to produce.
The Manager: Tell your people what the Leader said, and explain to your people how to do it.
It is not more complicated than that.
The Man responsible for such a "Naive" view?? Patton.
The civilized world has begun (?) to believe its own nonsense, that work can be done simply by "Asking" and believing the result will be stellar.
The Drift away from Individual excellence into murky collective "Consensus" started with Marx. It has travelled unabated since the mid 1850's, with few sparks of brilliance to thwart its lurch back into the Stone Age.
"One CANNOT strengthen the Weak by Weakening the Strong..." (Lincoln).
The Barometer of Failure is an excess of money.
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Bearfoil
If you read DAS KAPITAL by Karl Marx you will see how the CEOs et al operate. All they do is use this theory for their own agenda. They were all trained in this theory if they went to university here in Europe in the 1970s because it was fashionable. This is a "trade secret" I guess.
The result is always the same: a very small bunch of people live very well off a very insecure big bunch of people. Adam Smith in his THE WEALTH OF NATIONS describes this small greedy bunch as "certain men in a certain condition". A contemporary example is Michael O'Leary of EasyJet.
Adam Smith is the "good guy" and won out in 1989 when communism collapsed.
Make no mistake though, the other stuff is still used. Very successfully too until someone like Isaac Newton comes along and scares 'em. Ahem!
TURBINE D
"The pendulum swings from one side to the other over the past 40 year, maybe?"
http://www.econ.uniurb.it/siepi/dec0...s/lazonick.pdf
That paper was fascinating. I see INSEAD was involved, the MBA finishing school for the muppets who are sitting on the RR board of directors.
There is no question...they have lost control of the company. Isaac Newton is messing with their pendulum. It will cost them many times the £56m they have set aside as a fund to repay Qantas.
Just how much this will cost?
If you read DAS KAPITAL by Karl Marx you will see how the CEOs et al operate. All they do is use this theory for their own agenda. They were all trained in this theory if they went to university here in Europe in the 1970s because it was fashionable. This is a "trade secret" I guess.
The result is always the same: a very small bunch of people live very well off a very insecure big bunch of people. Adam Smith in his THE WEALTH OF NATIONS describes this small greedy bunch as "certain men in a certain condition". A contemporary example is Michael O'Leary of EasyJet.
Adam Smith is the "good guy" and won out in 1989 when communism collapsed.
Make no mistake though, the other stuff is still used. Very successfully too until someone like Isaac Newton comes along and scares 'em. Ahem!
TURBINE D
"The pendulum swings from one side to the other over the past 40 year, maybe?"
http://www.econ.uniurb.it/siepi/dec0...s/lazonick.pdf
That paper was fascinating. I see INSEAD was involved, the MBA finishing school for the muppets who are sitting on the RR board of directors.
There is no question...they have lost control of the company. Isaac Newton is messing with their pendulum. It will cost them many times the £56m they have set aside as a fund to repay Qantas.
Just how much this will cost?
Last edited by DERG; 25th Feb 2011 at 21:14. Reason: re-estimation of financial costs incurred
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Nice Headline...........
Engines run smoothly again as Rolls-Royce is named top brand
It experienced a wretched year that saw its chief executive step down and the failure of one of its engines that could have resulted in the crash of an Airbus plane carrying 469 passengers. Then last week one of its bosses accompanied David Cameron on his ill-fated tour to bang the drum for Britain's defence industry.
Yet a remarkably fortuitous sense of timing, coupled with its renowned sense of British stoicism, has led to the Rolls-Royce Group toppling Microsoft as the most respected brand in the UK.
Compiled by The Centre for Brand Analysis, which reflects the views of a panel of 2,000 business professionals, Rolls-Royce Group has taken the top spot in the Business Superbrands index for the first time since 2007. More than 1,100 brands were shortlisted for the survey, judged by professionals from the marketing, financial services and manufacturing sectors. Brands were rated against a number of criteria including quality, distinction – and reliability.
But the champagne at Rolls-Royce's Derby headquarters may have to be kept on ice for a while longer. The survey was compiled just before the dramatic failure of one of its Trent 900 engines, which exploded while powering an Airbus A380 on a Qantas plane last November, forcing the jet into an emergency landing in Singapore.
Yet a remarkably fortuitous sense of timing, coupled with its renowned sense of British stoicism, has led to the Rolls-Royce Group toppling Microsoft as the most respected brand in the UK.
Compiled by The Centre for Brand Analysis, which reflects the views of a panel of 2,000 business professionals, Rolls-Royce Group has taken the top spot in the Business Superbrands index for the first time since 2007. More than 1,100 brands were shortlisted for the survey, judged by professionals from the marketing, financial services and manufacturing sectors. Brands were rated against a number of criteria including quality, distinction – and reliability.
But the champagne at Rolls-Royce's Derby headquarters may have to be kept on ice for a while longer. The survey was compiled just before the dramatic failure of one of its Trent 900 engines, which exploded while powering an Airbus A380 on a Qantas plane last November, forcing the jet into an emergency landing in Singapore.