Concorde question

[Mike-Bracknell]

8) How many wheel brakes?

Wasn't there mention of a Ford Cortina disc brake for either the front wheels or the ones in the skid?

[M2dude]

Keep the answers coming guys, and yes Mike; their WAS a single nose wheel brake based on an automotive design. This brake was not electronically controlled like the main wheel brakes, but hydraulics for the UP selection was automatically ported to the single brake unit during retraction. (hmmm.. kinda given away the answer for that one ).

Dude

[arearadar]

radiation descent

We were warned specifcally to anticipate this course of action during periods of increased sunspot activity but in all my years from Concord`s introduction, including pre-production runs, to her demise, I never once experienced it.

Dave

[ChristiaanJ]

Originally Posted by arearadar

... radiation descent... in all my years from Concorde's introduction, including pre-production runs, to her demise, I never once experienced it.

Dave,
From all the disparate reports I've seen over the years from "usually reliable sources", it does seem indeed nobody ever experienced it.
The suspicious "blips" on the indicator over "suspicious sites" were never long enough to initiate an emergency descent.
And that radiation always came from below, not from outer space....

CJ

[atakacs]

11) At what airfied were the first BA crew base training details held?
No idea.
Was it Brize Norton, or Casablanca?

Oh I certainly vividly remember as teenager witnessing AF doing all sorts of training approaches, including touch and go & 3 engine takeoffs in Casa !

[Brit312]

11) At what airfied were the first BA crew base training details held?
No idea.
Was it Brize Norton, or Casablanca?

The first two sets of BA crews did their circuit flying at Fairford, and the crews after that went to all sorts of different airfields in the UK , France and Portugal

12) What LHR runways did Concorde use for landing and take-off? (Trick question, not as obvious as it might seem).

Now as far as take-off is concerned

27 left and right
09 right

Landing 27 L & R----- 09 L & R---- 23 and 05 [ but not in the later years]

Now I cannot remember if you could take off on 23

[dixi188]

Brit 312,

I guess you mean 23/05.
Also It would have been 10/28 L&R when Concorde went into service.

Cheers, Dixi.

[M2dude]

Great answers about the runways Brit312 but you missed one. In 2003 we started doing take offs from 9 Left (just Concorde). This was due to construction work on the southern runway. The aeroplane would come really low over the hangars too and made quite a spectacle.
Regards

Dude

[Brit312]

I guess you mean 23/05.
Also It would have been 10/28 L&R when Concorde went into service.

Dixi, You are absolutely correct, so I have corrected my posting, and glad to see that someone actually reads my postings

My only excuse is age, phew what would I do without that excuse

Great answers about the runways Brit312 but you missed one. In 2003 we started doing take offs from 9 Left (just Concorde). This was due to construction work on the southern runway. The aeroplane would come really low over the hangars too and made quite a spectacle.
Regards

My only excuse for not knowing that was it was after my time with the old girl, but now you mention it I seem to remember that previous to 2003 we might have been able to use 09L again due to work on 09R , but if I remember correctly we had to ask for special permission.

Mind you as I said above the memory is fading with age

[M2dude]

The reason for 9L being used was because there was a blanket ban placed on the aircraft taking off from ANY runway undergoing construction, post Gonesse. (I seem to remember that the restricion was placed due to crown life issues). Oh, and Brit312; I knew that this all happened long after you put your last HP valve switch to SHUT, that is why I made the coment.
And Dixi188 has kinda answered the trick part of this question too, regarding 10/28 Left & Right. (As well as the 'correct' cross runway QDMs). Nice one Dixi
Answers in total in a couple of days guys, and keep 'PM'ing away about this, I'm happy to carry on answering.
Regards to all

Dude

[Volume]

1) How many Concorde airframes were built?
Twenty-two.
Two static-test airframes.
- One at Toulouse, for purely static tests, and tests such as vibration and flutter.

That one is sadly rotting away in the Ailes Anciennes aircraft museum storage area exposed to the Toulouse weather...


Left Upper Wing Skin


Right hand passenger window, rear fuselage


Seat tracks, forward cabin looking aft

At least it was in 2008, maybe it has been scrapped in favor of the A350 production line by now.

[stilton]

In a previous post it was mentioned there are three lights above each bank of engine instruments, one of these being green for 'go'



What engine parameters were monitored to provide this indication and how was this done ?

[FSLabs]

The green 'Go' configuration light depends on the following flowchart:

Ess 28v DC Busbar -> Fwd Thrust Selected -> Arming Switch 'On' -> Landing Gear Relay Operated -> Fuel Flow Attained -> Jet Pipe Pressure (P7) Attained -> Bucket Position Correct -> 'GO'.

How were these engine parameters monitored? (From the AMM)

- Arming Switch 'ON' : it's a manually operated four-pole solenoid-held switch, for the four engine circuits, operative only when a landing gear weight switch is energized.

- Fuel Flow and Jet Pipe Pressure (P7) Attained: Once the circuit to the 'Go' light is armed, the flow and pressure are monitored against the values set on the indicator bugs on the respective instruments. Once they pass those values, their respective change-over relays are energized, completing the circuit.

Here's a simplified schematic for this:



At least I think that's how it works .

Lefteris

[Brit312]

What engine parameters were monitored to provide this indication and how was this done ?

Each engine had associated with it a set of lights , Blue, Amber, and Green

BLUE reverse light --- this reflected the correct operation of the
reverse thrust.

Flashing, rev selected but buckets in transit
On steady reverse selected and achieved

Amber Configuration
[CON] light----------- ON if reheat fails with no loss of engine RPM
On if reverse selected and primary nozzle greater
than 15%

Green Go light---------- This light monitored the engine for correct power
for take-off in that

Fuel flow and P7 had to match or exceed a pre
calculated figures, which were preset on their
individual gauges prior to take off.

The secondary nozzles had to within their
take-off limits

The CON light is off

In the case of No 4 engine the N1 limiter has
returned to normal position

Now normally there was a call of 100kts and at that point there had to be 4 green GO lights illuminated otherwise the t/off would be aborted. There was a concession to this in that if runway/ conditions /weight allowed the takeoff could continue with only 3 green lights illuminated at 100 kts as long as the
affected basic engine was OK[ this covered the loss of one reheat]

The green lights were considered necessary if the aircraft was using a rough runway and nose nodding could interfer with correct engine instruement monitoring and were also handy as the pilots could at a glance check whether they had at least minimum eng power for t/off.

To keep things simply their use was standard on all T/offs rough or otherwise

[stilton]

Thanks FS and Brit for your detailed replys.


I can see the value of the green lights, one might say the system was an early form of EICAS engine monitoring ? !

[Lord Bracken]

I flew off 9L on BA001 in September 2003, just before it stopped. If you sat on the right hand side of the aircraft you got a great view of the BA engineering base whizzing past as you eased into a nice right turn towards the west...

[M2dude]

Ze Concorde Quiz Mk 2 (Or is it Mach 2?).... Ze Answers

OK guys, here are the answers. If you disagree about any of them then fire away, the old memory certainly 'aint perfect.

1) How many Concorde airframes were built?

As many of you have guessed, there were 22: The 14 production airframes, the 2 production series development aircraft (201 & 202), the 2 pre-production airframes (101 & 102) and the 2 prototypes 001 & 002. PLUS, the major fatigue test specimen at the RAE Farnborough and the static test specimen at CEAT in Toulouse. The CEAT tests actually tested the wing to destruction; I seem to remember it was something like a 200% overload before the wing failed at the root. And great but rather sad pictures VOLUME, never seen these before.

2) As far as the British constructed aircraft went, name the destinations that were served?. Regular flight numbers only, excludes charters etc.

OK, from MY memory , we have: London LHR (duhhh!!), Bahrein BAH, Singapore SIN, New York JFK, Washington IAD, Dallas DFW, Miami MIA, Toronto YYZ, Barbados BGI, and Riyadh RUH. As well as charters being ommited, so are some of the special 'surprise' shuttle appearances that Concorde would make, substituting a subsonic to and from destinations such as Manchester and Edinburgh.

3) What was the departure time for the ORIGINAL morning LHR-JFK Concorde services? (Not called the BA001 then either).

11:15

4) Further to question 3 above, what WERE the original flight numbers for the BA001 and BA003? (The morning and evening LHR-JFK services?).

The BA193 and BA 195.

5) There were no less than FORTY SIX fuel pumps on Concorde. What was the breakdown for these? (Clue; don't forget the scavenge pump ).

OK, there were 12 engine feed pumps (3 per engine) 8 main transfer tank pumps (2 each for the transfer tanks 5, 6, 7 & 8), 4 'A' tank pumps (2 each for 5A & 7A), 8 trim-transfer tank pumps (2 electric pumps each for tanks 9, 10 & 11 PLUS 2 hydraulically driven pumps for tank 9), 4 electric engine start pumps (there was a single electric start pump per engine that delivered fuel to it's own dedicated start atomiser in the combustion chamber. The pump automatically ran when the engine HP valve was set to OPEN and would continue running for 30 seconds after the DEBOW switch was returned to the 'normal' position), 4 engine first stage pumps (a single mechanically driven pump per engine), 4 second stage pumps (a single pneumatically driven pump, sometimes termed 'the turbopump, per engine. This would cut out at around 20,000'), our scavenge tank pump (triggered automatically when there was 7 US gallons in the tank; pumping it back into tank 2. This pump was identical to an 'A' tank transfer pump), and FINALLY, a single de-air pump for tank 10. The pump would drive the fuel through a mesh, removing air bubbles from the fuel. Tank 11 used the L/H trim pump for de-air (similar principle)and would be switched on during take-off. This is why the tank 5 trim inlet valve being set to over-ride OPEN would result in the tank being highly pressurised in the case of the Gonesse disaster; the pump would obviously pressurise the L/H trim gallery and any tank on that side with an open inlet valve!!!

6) What was the only development airframe to have a TOTALLY unique shape?

G-AXDN, aircraft 101. (A production wing, fuselage, droop nose and intakes, but with the short tail section and secondary nozzles of the prototypes.

7) This one is particularly aimed at ChristiaanJ. What was the total number of gyros on the aircraft?

Ready ChristiaanJ? There were 18....Yes, the single SFENA standby horizon, 9 INS gyros (one per X,Y and Z platform in each of the 3 INUs), 8 autostab' rate gyros (one per axis for each of the 2 autostab' computers PLUS a monitor gyro for the pitch axis). The radar by the way used attitude signals from the INS.

8) How many wheel brakes?

9. One per main wheel plus the single 'in flight braking' nose wheel brake.

9) What Mach number was automatic engine variable intake control enabled?

Mach 0.7!!! Between this and Mach 1.26 the intake surfaces were positioned as a function of engine N1 if the engine was shut down for any reason. (Otherwise of course the intake surfaces were fully up). You needed a sub idle N1 of 57% and below for all this to happen, and it was to assist relight performance and reduce buffet. Between Mach 1.26 and 1.32 the ramps were driven down slightly to about 5%, full supersonic scheduling itself commencing at Mach 1.32.

10) Above each bank of engine instruments were three lights, a blue, a green and an amber. What did they each signify?

Already brilliantly answered by Brit312 (as well as the FSLabs diagram). Yep, Geen GO, T/O monitor armed, fuel flow and P7 at or above datum, A/C on ground, reverse not selected and CON light not on. Amber CON (Reheat selected and not detected, N1 OK or reverse selected and primary nozzle (Aj) not at minimum. Blue REV; steady buckets at reverse, flashing buckets in transit.

11) At what airfield were the first BA crew base training details held?

Fairford, followed by Brize Norton, and then a host of airfields from Prestwick and Shannon to Chateauroux.

12) What LHR runways did Concorde use for landing and take-off? (Trick question, not as obvious as it might seem).

OK, probably no surprises now:
Landing - 27L & R, 9L & R (prior to LHR mag' deviation update were 28L & R & 10L & R) together with 23/05.
Take off - 27L (28L), 9R (10R) and 9L. (10L never happened as take offs on this runway only occurred in 2003).

13) What operator had serious plans to operate Concorde from SNN to JFK in the early 1980's?

It was FedEx, they planned to operate two stripped out aircraft, leased from BA, between Shannon and JFK as high value parcel carriers. The idea was that parcels would be flown in from all over Europe by small FedEx feeder aircraft and the parcels transferred to Concorde which would then speed on to JFK in around 2 1/2 hours. It never happened because of a combination of economics appraisal by FedEx and BA deciding that it could would not release the aircraft anyway.

14) What development aircraft did not exceed Mach 2 until fifteen months after her maiden flight?

A/C 101, G-AXDN first flew on 17th December 1971 with FIXED INTAKES!! (101 was going to be the launch vehicle for the new digital intake control system, but the 'boxes' were still being designed). This placed an operating limit of Mach 1.5 on the aircraft, limiting her ability with such a restricted flight envelope. She returned to Filton in late 1972 for installation of the system, as well as the new Olympus 593-602 engine. (The engine, very similar to the production Mk 610 version, used a quite revolutionary annular combustion chamber, and eliminated at a stroke the thick smoke exhaust that had up to then been Concorde's unwanted visual signiture). The aircraft flew more or less smokeless on 15 March 1973, achieving Mach 2 soon afterwards. As ChristiaanJ pointed out, the British prototype 002 had a similar gap, actually significantly higher, of 19 months. (The French aircraft 001 had an even longer gap of some 20 months).

I hope you guys had fun with this one, regards to all

Dude

[Brit312]

Fairford, followed by Brize Norton, and then a host of airfields from Prestwick and Shannon to Chateauroux

In 1987 we also used Machrihanish because they were digging up the end of Prestwicks runway which made it too short for touch and go

In1998 we also used Porto as I think Chateauroux asked us to leave after too many noise complaints

Before we started base flying at Brize Norton there was a lot of negative opinion about it due to possible noise. The first day of training the airport was saturated with noise complaints, however what the local population did not know was that the Concorde had gone U/S and did not fly on that day. They could not see due to cloud cover but what they were complaining about were the RAF VC-10 in the circuit , and these aircraft had been training there for months with no complaints.

Shannon was always considered too risky for Concorde to base it self at for Base training, however in 1998 when things in N.Ireland had settled down a bit we did base a Concorde for a few days in Shannon for base training.

If I remember correctly during all the flight testing program at Fairford, BAC built a lay-by on the main road so that the public could watch the aircraft come and go free of charge. Apparently some bright spark bought himself a white coat and a roll of parking tickets and started charging people for parking. Now that is what you call free enterprise

[ChristiaanJ]

Originally Posted by M2dude

... The static test specimen at CEAT in Toulouse. The CEAT tests actually tested the wing to destruction; I seem to remember it was something like a 200% overload before the wing failed at the root. And great but rather sad pictures VOLUME, never seen these before.

I'd never seen those either.... I was convinced the static test speciment had been scrapped a very long time ago.
The entire collection of "Ailes Anciennes Toulouse" has been moved to a different location only very recently... one can merely hope that at least some of the bits and pieces of "0001" have survived...
Maybe VOLUME can tell us more?

CJ

[M2dude]

Brit312

In 1987 we also used Machrihanish because they were digging up the end of Prestwicks runway which made it too short for touch and go

I was up at Prestwick in 1988. and I remember that several details were carried out doing touch and goes at Machrihanish also, when the late GREAT John Cook was running things flight training wise.

In1998 we also used Porto as I think Chateauroux asked us to leave after too many noise complaints

Concorde noisy? What WERE they talking about

Before we started base flying at Brize Norton there was a lot of negative opinion about it due to possible noise. The first day of training the airport was saturated with noise complaints, however what the local population did not know was that the Concorde had gone U/S and did not fly on that day. They could not see due to cloud cover but what they were complaining about were the RAF VC-10 in the circuit , and these aircraft had been training there for months with no complaints.

Oh this was typical; so many of, shall we say, the less sensible members of our species, would blame Concorde for absolutely ANYTHING, whether sh was flying or not

Shannon was always considered too risky for Concorde to base it self at for Base training, however in 1998 when things in N.Ireland had settled down a bit we did base a Concorde for a few days in Shannon for base training.

Actually a few training sesions were carried out there in the mid to late 1990's, before the norm, became Chateuroux. I remember 'Dirty Nellies' fondly, as anyone who is familiar with SNN will understand.

If I remember correctly during all the flight testing program at Fairford, BAC built a lay-by on the main road so that the public could watch the aircraft come and go free of charge.

It was not so much as a lay by as a real car park, right on the edge of the runway. Whenever the aeoroplane was going to fly, word got around and the car park filled up quickly. Right up to when the Fairford Flight Test Centre was closed in early 1977, the car park was always filled to overflowing.

Thanks for coming up with the additional flight training airfields Brit312, my poor old memory is fading... FAST......

Dude