Technique for crosswind rollout
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Technique for crosswind rollout
Hi guys! I am currently building experience flying jet transport aircraft. Currently on the NG. I would appreciate if you could share the technique you apply during rollout on cross wind conditions. On some of my landings I have noticed that during rollout the aircraft tends to steer to the sides. Not sure if it's caused by applying too much aileron into the wind or too little. Would one be normally applying cross-controls? Thanks in advance.
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'Into-wind' aileron and 'downwind' rudder, all 'as required' (eventually nose-wheel steering takes over from the rudder). So, yes, 'crossed'.
IE Enough aileron to keep the wings level, enough rudder to keep straight. Don't let anyone persuade you to apply some sort of 'fixed' settings
IE Enough aileron to keep the wings level, enough rudder to keep straight. Don't let anyone persuade you to apply some sort of 'fixed' settings
Don’t forget about the effects from thrust reverse.
See:-
Crosswind.
Aircraft performance on slippery runways in crosswinds - view PDF file online; page 6 and the last diagram could be of interest.
See:-
Crosswind.
Aircraft performance on slippery runways in crosswinds - view PDF file online; page 6 and the last diagram could be of interest.
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From experience, you can't apply too much into wind aileron after landing on a highly swept wing. The B747 upwind wing will lift until below 60kts on the landing roll. i agree with BOAC on the landing case, there is no fixed setting to apply - err on the side of caution and apply as much as you need - or more, it is unlikely that the (extra) aileron input will cause directional control problems.
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FLY THE AIRPLANE!!! Use the controls necessary to keep it rolling straight & level. Use whatever reverser technique your AFM/FHB/FCOM calls for.
If you transition to a slip to maintain track just prior to the landing flare, your controls will be "primed" in the correct direction for the rollout. Adjust as needed on the rollout.
If you transition to a slip to maintain track just prior to the landing flare, your controls will be "primed" in the correct direction for the rollout. Adjust as needed on the rollout.
Mr Trim
Assuming you learned on light planes--it is no different. Just look at the "taxi" chart for a C-150. OTOH, a swept wing, in a crosswind, presents the upwind wing at lower sweep angle than the downwind wing, so it has a more powerful lifting effect. Think of a 45-degree sweep in a right crosswind 45 degrees off the nose. The upwind wing has a wind component 90 degrees to the wind while the downwind wing has, essentially no wind normal to the chord. Strong lift on the right, little on the left.
Individual aircraft landing gear geometry, fin/rudder and aileron effectiveness, sweep angle and weathervane tendency will effect its roll/yaw component on the runway.
GF
Assuming you learned on light planes--it is no different. Just look at the "taxi" chart for a C-150. OTOH, a swept wing, in a crosswind, presents the upwind wing at lower sweep angle than the downwind wing, so it has a more powerful lifting effect. Think of a 45-degree sweep in a right crosswind 45 degrees off the nose. The upwind wing has a wind component 90 degrees to the wind while the downwind wing has, essentially no wind normal to the chord. Strong lift on the right, little on the left.
Individual aircraft landing gear geometry, fin/rudder and aileron effectiveness, sweep angle and weathervane tendency will effect its roll/yaw component on the runway.
GF
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As said above fly the a/c as you flair kick off the drift just before main gear contact/just after if you miss it as the the 737 is built to land with a crab if needed, think auto land in cross wind. As you straighten out the drift you will have to apply aileron in the opposite, upwind direction to keep the wings level. This position is exactly what you want on the roll out as well. As much of each as ness. no restrictions like on take off spoilers should be extended any way.
Congrats on realising the flight isn't over as the main wheels touch as this is a symptom that can occur and some people believe it or not think there days work is over let the nose wheel crash down and relax waiting for the capt. to say i have control. (providing your ops say they are pf on the ground ie. the one with the tiler)
Congrats on realising the flight isn't over as the main wheels touch as this is a symptom that can occur and some people believe it or not think there days work is over let the nose wheel crash down and relax waiting for the capt. to say i have control. (providing your ops say they are pf on the ground ie. the one with the tiler)
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Thanks to all of you for your valuable input 
. Incidentally, for my private pilot course I exclusively flew in a Piper Cub – 65 hp (lots of fun - lots of foot work - great trainer) out from a lovely 1500 ft. grass strip. Once again, thanks for the posts.
. Incidentally, for my private pilot course I exclusively flew in a Piper Cub – 65 hp (lots of fun - lots of foot work - great trainer) out from a lovely 1500 ft. grass strip. Once again, thanks for the posts.
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I would like to follow up with an additional question in relation to the topic:
What's your SOP's regarding hand-over from FO to Capt during rollout on the RWY? I'm used to handover latest when the speedtape disappears (40kts) and/or if tiller needed (called by Capt "my controls")
What's your SOP's regarding hand-over from FO to Capt during rollout on the RWY? I'm used to handover latest when the speedtape disappears (40kts) and/or if tiller needed (called by Capt "my controls")
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Topbunk, your "cannot apply too much into wind aileron" technique is a recipe for disaster. Having flown the whale for the last 9 years I can assure you that excessive aileron deflection at speeds > 80 knots will bury the # 1 or 4 pod (100 kts for the classic).
FW
FW
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Takeoff53:
No set airspeed to hand over the controls to the captain during rollout. "At captains discretion", per SOPs. Just positive transfer of controls.
No set airspeed to hand over the controls to the captain during rollout. "At captains discretion", per SOPs. Just positive transfer of controls.
Last edited by Mr Trim; 10th Jun 2010 at 15:19.
Call me old-fashioned but I do grimace when I read or hear people talking about 'kicking-off' the drift with regard to large commercial aircraft. The aircraft we fly today with powered controls feeding large control surfaces do not need aggressive inputs in normal operating conditions and crosswinds up to limitations should fall into that category. I seem to remember Leo Sullivan, the highly esteemed Lockheed test-pilot, warning against sudden control reversals whilst the Airbus accident in New York just after 9/11 involved very exaggerated rudder inputs.
Perhaps we could smoothly squeeze in rudder inputs balanced against opposite aileron rather than 'kick-in' a bootfull of size tens ?
Perhaps we could smoothly squeeze in rudder inputs balanced against opposite aileron rather than 'kick-in' a bootfull of size tens ?
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I am sorry Beamer your absolutely correct.
Retract segments of previous post regarding said "Kicking off of drift" and please read smoothly apply appropriate pressure to the rudder pedals actuating the hydraulically controlled rudder at the rear of the vertical stabiliser. (Caution excessive deflection or rate there of may cause control issues).
PS no specific speed for transfer of control. Though i would say it is nice sometimes to let the handling pilot control the aircraft and it's rate of deceleration until you come off the rapid exit. This usually results in the smoothest and efficient runway occupation. Far to often in my humble opinion capts. jump on the controls through their own fear or what ever then proceed to stamp on the brakes, because they have no idea what kind of pressure the f/o is applying turning a nice smooth retardation into a smack in the face from the chair in front for the pax.
Retract segments of previous post regarding said "Kicking off of drift" and please read smoothly apply appropriate pressure to the rudder pedals actuating the hydraulically controlled rudder at the rear of the vertical stabiliser. (Caution excessive deflection or rate there of may cause control issues).
PS no specific speed for transfer of control. Though i would say it is nice sometimes to let the handling pilot control the aircraft and it's rate of deceleration until you come off the rapid exit. This usually results in the smoothest and efficient runway occupation. Far to often in my humble opinion capts. jump on the controls through their own fear or what ever then proceed to stamp on the brakes, because they have no idea what kind of pressure the f/o is applying turning a nice smooth retardation into a smack in the face from the chair in front for the pax.
Last edited by Todders; 10th Jun 2010 at 17:31.
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what about airbus xwind landing
Very practical! On the other hand, Airbus aircraft ,due to sde stick control philosophy and no feed-back from control surfaces ,seems to me more difficult to transit from flare to roll out. especially A320 pilots can be really busy for crosswind landings ;since Airbus don't recommend x-control(side slip) techniques,there's more to consider after touchdown ,when rwy surface is wet ,then even more coordination required for directional control; not to mention different control laws during partially hydrallic system malfuction.
Flying airbus in strong gusty wind sometimes can be "shaky",so any good advice for a stablized landing?Also techniques for instucting a FO for xwind landings( prefered without dual-input). Thanks1
Flying airbus in strong gusty wind sometimes can be "shaky",so any good advice for a stablized landing?Also techniques for instucting a FO for xwind landings( prefered without dual-input). Thanks1
beamer
Yes, I quite agree. I was taught the "kick it out" phrase by old Boeing pilots; they, of course, really meant, "squeeze it out". One windy day landing with near limiting crosswind at Yakima, WA in the C-5. I was letting the reasonably experienced LT do the landing. He took "kick it out" too literally. I was completely surprised when he put in a yard of downwind rudder, the nose yawed downwind, followed rapidly by 600,000 pounds of Lockheed. I took the plane, he didn't fight it for an instant, and started a go-around at full take-off power. On downwind, I got my BP below 200/100 and landed it. NEVER used "kick it out" again.
GF
Yes, I quite agree. I was taught the "kick it out" phrase by old Boeing pilots; they, of course, really meant, "squeeze it out". One windy day landing with near limiting crosswind at Yakima, WA in the C-5. I was letting the reasonably experienced LT do the landing. He took "kick it out" too literally. I was completely surprised when he put in a yard of downwind rudder, the nose yawed downwind, followed rapidly by 600,000 pounds of Lockheed. I took the plane, he didn't fight it for an instant, and started a go-around at full take-off power. On downwind, I got my BP below 200/100 and landed it. NEVER used "kick it out" again.
GF
