Passenger Evacuation - Memory Item or QRH?
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No... no one wins... and the good news is that no one loses either.
One of the last carriers I flew for in the US, have a QRH for our 727s. We had to go the the "book". We revised our emergency procedures to change a number of memory items to a read and do procedure. Our POI signed off on it and life was good. In that case we, the crewmembers were winners especially during the PCs
.
One of the last carriers I flew for in the US, have a QRH for our 727s. We had to go the the "book". We revised our emergency procedures to change a number of memory items to a read and do procedure. Our POI signed off on it and life was good. In that case we, the crewmembers were winners especially during the PCs
.
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In the airline i fly for the EVAC drills are completed from memory - each pilot has their own specific drills to accomplish. Then, commanders discretion, if not life threathening the F/O reads the QRH to ensure all is covered.
Id like to point out that in the Boeing QRH in checklist instructions it states that "The pilot flying may also direct reference checklists to be done by memory if no hazard is created by such action, or if the situation does not allow reference to the checklist"
Id like to point out that in the Boeing QRH in checklist instructions it states that "The pilot flying may also direct reference checklists to be done by memory if no hazard is created by such action, or if the situation does not allow reference to the checklist"
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Your comments about the QRH and doing it from memory are true, but you better not do it from memory and screw it up as no one will be there to support your actions.
About the only non-memory item I would attempt is an APU fire. Can't do much wrong there.
About the only non-memory item I would attempt is an APU fire. Can't do much wrong there.
CommandB, (and others);
Except for Rainboe, no one has addressed the "evacuating into live engines" issue when "each pilot has their own specific drills to accomplish".
How is the evac signal or PA from the left seat coordinated with other crew members to ensure the engines are shut down before the command to evacuate is given?
To ask the question differently, - What item or SOP in your memory items or QRH checklists ensures that the evac command isn't given until the engines have been shut down, (fuel levers/switches off)?
I realize there are lots of scenarios and no evac is the same as any other, but ensuring the engines have been shut down should be a standard item, memorized or not. (That's the problem with a memory checklist - in a hurry and under pressure, you can forget that the/some engines may still be running). A single-point checklist (meaning, read by one crew member, done by the other), prevents all such screwups and doesn't take a lot longer to do.
In the airline i fly for the EVAC drills are completed from memory - each pilot has their own specific drills to accomplish.
How is the evac signal or PA from the left seat coordinated with other crew members to ensure the engines are shut down before the command to evacuate is given?
To ask the question differently, - What item or SOP in your memory items or QRH checklists ensures that the evac command isn't given until the engines have been shut down, (fuel levers/switches off)?
I realize there are lots of scenarios and no evac is the same as any other, but ensuring the engines have been shut down should be a standard item, memorized or not. (That's the problem with a memory checklist - in a hurry and under pressure, you can forget that the/some engines may still be running). A single-point checklist (meaning, read by one crew member, done by the other), prevents all such screwups and doesn't take a lot longer to do.
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About the only non-memory item I would attempt is an APU fire. Can't do much wrong there.
... APU Fire... Memory item now on the 737-800... at least for the carrier I fly for. Boeing changed APU Fire procedure recently from a read and do to a memory.But spot on about performing a non-memory checklist without the QRH.
Watch and listen to NTSB hearing about the testimony about the ATR-42 mishap in LBB. The captain is asked questions about that same subject.
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Well that is very interesting that the 737-800 APU fire is a memory item. Is that a Boeing change or airline specific change? Boeing does not drift far afield from fleet types and one has to wonder what drove that descision.
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....I'm referencing the 777/787 not anything else.
One then wonders.... just where some folks get their info.
Answers on a postcard.
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.... but I have a Letter of Authorization for the 787 in lieu of a type rating and it says I can turn it in for the real thing when the airplane is certified
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New FAA regulations from maybe from a few years back.
No more memory items, take the QRH and follow accordingly.
Will try and find the regs.
Never understood how this would work for hung or hot starts.
No time to look this info up.
No more memory items, take the QRH and follow accordingly.
Will try and find the regs.
Never understood how this would work for hung or hot starts.
No time to look this info up.
Last edited by Earl; 26th Sep 2009 at 22:10.
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Earl I'm not sure where your coming from on this issue but there are numerous memory items in the current Boeing QRH's. There was time in the early 80's when recall or memory items were almost reduced to zero, but that has changed and we are back doing them again for better or worse.
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Maybe it has changed back to this, will try to find the regs.
But around 2000 and 2001 the FAA did drop this requirement.
I work abroad now so maybe I am incorrect.
Normally the evacuation checklist is on the last page of the QRH with many airlines.
But around 2000 and 2001 the FAA did drop this requirement.
I work abroad now so maybe I am incorrect.
Normally the evacuation checklist is on the last page of the QRH with many airlines.
Last edited by Earl; 26th Sep 2009 at 22:24.
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You are correct regarding the placement of the Evac checklist as that's the normal location for it on all the current Boeing QRH's be it a stubbby or long one.
I think Northwest was the leader in having the memory items reduced to almost nothing back in the eighties only to find them back in full force now.
I think Northwest was the leader in having the memory items reduced to almost nothing back in the eighties only to find them back in full force now.
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Our QRH contains 18 memory items.
Airspeed Unreliable
Aborted Engine Start
APU Fire
Cabin Altitude Warning
Emergency Descent
Engine Fire
Engine Limit or Surge or Stall
Engine Overheat
Engine Severe Damage or Separation
Engine Tailpipe Fire
Evacuation
Loss of Thrust on Both Engines
Overspeed
Rapid Depressurization
Runaway Stabilizer
Smoke, Fire or Fumes
Takeoff Configuration
Warning Horn – Cabin Altitude or Configuration
Some items may be airline specific, while some the rest are required by the aviation authority.
Airspeed Unreliable
Aborted Engine Start
APU Fire
Cabin Altitude Warning
Emergency Descent
Engine Fire
Engine Limit or Surge or Stall
Engine Overheat
Engine Severe Damage or Separation
Engine Tailpipe Fire
Evacuation
Loss of Thrust on Both Engines
Overspeed
Rapid Depressurization
Runaway Stabilizer
Smoke, Fire or Fumes
Takeoff Configuration
Warning Horn – Cabin Altitude or Configuration
Some items may be airline specific, while some the rest are required by the aviation authority.
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Looks like 737, except for the evacuation which may be airline specific. Ours got changed to read and do a couple years back and Boeings justification in the transmittal letter was cross-fleet standardization. Might be airline specific too as we are allowed to do CCQ from 73s to 75 or 76 with only 3 sim sessions and then fly the lot mixed and i believe they want to approve the same once the 787s join the fleet (which could be never, the orders are currently being reviewed as the program lapse grows too large).
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Items to be included in the QRH whether by "memory", or "read and do" are not solely at the discretion of the manufacturer and operator. The controlling agency is a party to the manual approval process too when comes to manual content.
For example. The black lines on the upper surface of the wing. If there is ice or frost accumulation within the boarder of these lines as a result of NEI, per Boeing, action may not be required.
Takeoff with light coatings of cold-soaked fuel frost on upper wing surfaces is allowable, provided the following conditions are met:
• the frost on the upper surface is less than 1/16 inch (1.5 mm) in thickness
• the extent of the frost is similar on both wings
• the frost is on or between the black lines defining the allowable cold-soaked fuel frost area (see figure) with no ice or frost on the leading edges or control surfaces
• the ambient air temperature is above freezing (0°C, 32°F)
• there is no precipitation or visible moisture (rain, snow, drizzle or fog with less than 1 mile visibility, etc.) If all the above criteria are not met, all ice or frost on the wings must be removed using appropriate deicing/anti-icing procedures.
Some aviation authorities do allow this and thus require that the area be de-iced before departure, be it by natural means (warm fuel into the wings), or using an approved method of de-icing if a short turn is required.
For example. The black lines on the upper surface of the wing. If there is ice or frost accumulation within the boarder of these lines as a result of NEI, per Boeing, action may not be required.
Takeoff with light coatings of cold-soaked fuel frost on upper wing surfaces is allowable, provided the following conditions are met:
• the frost on the upper surface is less than 1/16 inch (1.5 mm) in thickness
• the extent of the frost is similar on both wings
• the frost is on or between the black lines defining the allowable cold-soaked fuel frost area (see figure) with no ice or frost on the leading edges or control surfaces
• the ambient air temperature is above freezing (0°C, 32°F)
• there is no precipitation or visible moisture (rain, snow, drizzle or fog with less than 1 mile visibility, etc.) If all the above criteria are not met, all ice or frost on the wings must be removed using appropriate deicing/anti-icing procedures.
Some aviation authorities do allow this and thus require that the area be de-iced before departure, be it by natural means (warm fuel into the wings), or using an approved method of de-icing if a short turn is required.
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Captjns,
Don't know what airplane your referring to when you drew up this list of memory items but it has me perplexed just a little. Are saying that there are seperate checklists for:
Cabin altitude
Emergency Descent
Rapid depressurization
Altitude warning horn
Where I come from those are all one and the same checklist
Don't know what airplane your referring to when you drew up this list of memory items but it has me perplexed just a little. Are saying that there are seperate checklists for:
Cabin altitude
Emergency Descent
Rapid depressurization
Altitude warning horn
Where I come from those are all one and the same checklist
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Don't know what airplane your referring to when you drew up this list of memory items but it has me perplexed just a little. Are saying that there are seperate checklists for
The Depressurization check list is separate from the Emergency Descent.
If the depressurization problem is solved, then the emergency descent is not required. If the pressurization problem can’t be solved, then the QRH directs the crew to the Emergency Descent checklist.
I can’t speak for other operators, but our QRH is much more user friendly than previous QRH’s.
Our aircraft are being equipped with red “TAKEOFF CONFIG” and “CABIN ALTITUDE” lights on the forward instrument panels… thus the Warning Horn – Cabin Altitude or Configuration procedure.