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Tristar L-1011 FMS & Autopilot

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Tristar L-1011 FMS & Autopilot

Old 7th May 2009, 18:57
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With Frisbee Fairing


Last edited by b377; 21st May 2009 at 13:47.
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Old 7th May 2009, 19:52
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The L1011 did not need an FMS to provide fail/operational automatic approach/land (autoland) operations...it had the first dual/dual autopilot/flight director system (produced by Collins Radio) fitted to a wide body jet transport aircraft.
Yes, roll and pitch computers provided, straight out of the factory, from day one.

The FMS (manufactured by Hamilton Sundstrand) was added just slightly later on, to provide complete LNAV/VNAV and engine thrust management, in one neat (dual) package.
Those aircraft delivered to SVA had a moving map navigation display provided, as a standard fit.

The type is unsurpassed to this day in providing a very smooth operation during automatic approach/land maneuvers.
In short, it is the gold standard, to which others are compared.

Just ask the folks whom have flown this quite remarkable airplane.
Old?
Yes.
Superb?
Absolutely.

And, on the TriStar...it was all analogue.

Lockheed, simply designed and built to a higher standard....with proper RollsRoyce engines
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Old 7th May 2009, 20:16
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411A get over it.....it was a great aircraft..as was the 727 or 747 0r others..but its time has gone...please realease
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Old 7th May 2009, 20:30
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strongly advise you not to discredit the Tritanic with 411A... it is however indeed a beast and a half. Last one I saw needed a good clean... but that was a few years back now.
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Old 7th May 2009, 20:59
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411A

can you say some more about the dual-dual configuration in the legacy Tristar.

Last edited by b377; 8th May 2009 at 08:36.
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Old 7th May 2009, 21:04
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ok...the L1011 was a great aircracft for its time...I have flown (in airline ops) F27 F28 B737 (200-900) and the GODESS of the skies the B777...and I await 411A
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Old 7th May 2009, 21:06
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Thumbs up

Hey there,

I'm a co- on 216 Sqn, flying the mighty TriMotor

Let me know what you need and I'll try and help if I can. YOu can IM me if you want.

trstr
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Old 7th May 2009, 21:16
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Think I might have the original LOCKHEED integrated avionics user manual in the loft somewhere. Interestingly we had triple INS that was exactly the same as used on Apollo rockets (8?)to get them to the moon and back...pucker L/Haul!
I also worked for BEA when we bought the 100's and compared to our biggest aircraft at the time the Trident 3 I recall seeing the first delivered aircraft parked behind Viscount House and thinking it resembled a block of flats with wings!
As an ex ginger beer on the tritanic with a UK charter airline I can tell you that I always had the Normal Checklist in one hand and the Emergency Checklist in the other. 411A your glasses must be a shade tinted, but at the time it was an awesome machine.
Funnily the endurance was dictated by how long you could keep the oil in the 22B engines and not fuel burn..memories.
Sadly its time is long gone,
RIP.

Last edited by KUMOOZ; 7th May 2009 at 21:35.
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Old 7th May 2009, 22:33
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Not so fast. Some of the later Pan Am -500's had digital AP's in them. Interestingly, they were not certified for autoland with one engine out, unlike the -100'/250's.......as I recall.
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Old 7th May 2009, 22:46
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Not so fast. Some of the later Pan Am -500's had digital AP's in them.
Negative.
Only the AP/FD glareshield panel appeared to be 'digital'...go down into the MESC and will be found many of the same units as on earlier aircraft.
You will note however, that these specific aircraft had localizer backcourse automated guideance, a PanAmerican requirement at the time.

Of course, most of the -500 model aircraft had active aileron gust relief augmentation, as well as other minor improvements.
MDLC?
Yes, that too.

I always had the Normal Checklist in one hand and the Emergency Checklist in the other. 411A your glasses must be a shade tinted, but at the time it was an awesome machine.
Shade tinted, no doubt.
However, in the last twenty nine years I've been flying the airplane, the 'emergency checklist' was not used once.
Abnormals, yes ( a few times), emergency...no.
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Old 7th May 2009, 23:42
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Hmmm... L1011-500, for me the best, only knew them by seeing them at LIS. The only other aircraft that has ACS is the space shuttle; Still one and only (dunno new boeings) to compensate for crosswinds in both yaw and roll axis, until 5 feet LRRA; 2 DFCC's (replacing earlier roll, pitch and yaw computers), it would do CAT 3C to gate and full CAT 3B with only 1 DFCC; ask the guys at Gatwick why they call it the "runway scrambler"; DFCC sensitivity down to the microvolt, touches down with a plus or minus 1,5 meter tolerance; no FL limits, up to FL440; Thrust control by DFCC when out of cruise phase, thrust management by FMC when in cruise; beautifull glareshield with those "gas discharge" lamps that formed numbers and letters...
Anyone care to show any other airliner with similar performance (except fuel, of course)???
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Old 8th May 2009, 01:54
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Hmmm... L1011-500, for me the best, only knew them by seeing them at LIS. The only other aircraft that has ACS is the space shuttle;
Our friends that fly the C-5's would be suprized to here this.

no FL limits, up to FL440
TCDS limit 43,000 feet?
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Old 8th May 2009, 01:55
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Age or Memory in Error

KUMOOZ, your recollections seem to be at odds with your posted age. Which of the two is erroneous? As for the Tristar range being limited by the oil consumption of the -22B, maybe the engineers should have put 'O' rings on the magnetic detectors or the cap on the oil reservoir. Although I had only a couple of years on the Tristar I can not recall oil consumption ever being an issue. And like 411A saysthe Emergency Checlist was gathering dust most, if not all, of the time.
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Old 8th May 2009, 02:31
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I too, have several thousand hours as F/E on the 1011,with two US operators in the 1990's in both domestic and international ops and enjoyed the aircraft very much.
I dont recall oil consumption ever being a major problem and I dont recall having to use the emergency checklist, other than in the sim.
The abnormal checklist was called upon a few times, but in general a great aircraft to operate and well ahead of its time .

If I had the opportunity to fly it again I would....especially as I am currently out of work!!!
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Old 8th May 2009, 04:12
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If I had the opportunity to fly it again I would...
You might consider dusting off the manuals...one never knows, especially if you are based on the western side of the great Atlantic divide, and don't need to rush home every two weeks...
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Old 13th May 2009, 00:50
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Originally Posted by 411A View Post
Lockheed, simply designed and built to a higher standard....
What about this? No elevator position indicators?

"...the crew, headed by Delta captain Jack MacMahan, was able to save a Lockheed 1011 in 1977 when the left elevator jammed full up. There is no cockpit indicator for this type of failure on the 1011, and the ground crew did not notice the problem. Macmahan controlled the airplane with differential thrust to a landing in Los Angeles"
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Old 13th May 2009, 01:07
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punkalouver: when you push or pull on the L1011 yoke you are moving the entire stabilizer, not the elevator, which acts only as a trim tab.
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Old 13th May 2009, 01:49
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the crew, headed by Delta captain Jack MacMahan,
Perhaps the concerned Captain did not read the abnormal checklist, which mandated using split spoilers for pitch control in such situations.

A simple procedure.
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Old 13th May 2009, 07:39
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Could have sworn that the L 1011-500 had a digital autopilot.

Distinctly remember the (red covered) Differences Manual stating that, along with a little cartoon showing how much weight was saved by replacing analog 'boxes' with digital ones. However it was almost 20 years ago, so maybe I got it wrong. No longer have the books, so can't check.

Direct Lift Control was a beauty. "30/30 Flap, DLC, Alpha Mode" was the PNF call to complete the landing checks if I remember right. Nothing was better than the the L-1011 when going round the corner on the IGS into Rwy 13 in Kai Tak.

The 777 was almost as good, but the never-changing pitch attitude on the Tristar (thanks to DLC) made it so easy.

Still miss the old girl, but kinda fond of my present (very fat) creature too.
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Old 13th May 2009, 14:03
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ASFKAP.

Not wishing to be a pedant but not all 500s were digital. 216sqn had a mix when i was on them and they back converted the pam am digitals to standardise them with the BA analogues.

I had to laugh a couple of years ago when my friends in Brazil were telling me how wonderfull the steep approach mode on the little Embraer jets was. When i mentioned that it was just a copy of the l1011 DLC from the 70's they were more than a little crestfallen.
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