Jet Handing Text Book
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Jet Handing Text Book
Hi
I have been recommended to get a text book called "handling the big jets" authored by DP Davies. I would like to read up on Jet Handling and operations for the future.
Is this text book better then "flying the big jets" authored by stanley jones?
I am only asking as both books have similar names and I cannot remember which was the better read.
I have been recommended to get a text book called "handling the big jets" authored by DP Davies. I would like to read up on Jet Handling and operations for the future.
Is this text book better then "flying the big jets" authored by stanley jones?
I am only asking as both books have similar names and I cannot remember which was the better read.
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'Handling The Big Jets' was authored by David P. Davies who, for quite sometime, was head of aircraft certification for the UKCAA.
The book was first available 'round about 1968 (that's when I read it) and updated several times over the years.
This is the one you want.
Nothing else compares.
And yes, Capt Davies references to some of the early jet transport aeroplanes was spot on...I flew one of them, and they were not all that easy to fly, compared to more modern types.
In one particular case, Davies told Boeing that they had better modify the rudder power system on the early B707, or it would not be accepted onto the British civil register.
Boeing did as they were told.
The book was first available 'round about 1968 (that's when I read it) and updated several times over the years.
This is the one you want.
Nothing else compares.
And yes, Capt Davies references to some of the early jet transport aeroplanes was spot on...I flew one of them, and they were not all that easy to fly, compared to more modern types.
In one particular case, Davies told Boeing that they had better modify the rudder power system on the early B707, or it would not be accepted onto the British civil register.
Boeing did as they were told.
"Flying the big jets" is what it says on the cover - an introduction for the layman on what it is like to fly a big jet. If you aren't a layman (i.e. you have any type of pilot license) then it won't be of much help to you. (It's a good book for what it tries to do, though - explains the life and operation without dumbing down the subject.)
"Handling the big jets" is a much more technical work, and much more interesting (and really the only one of the two you would want) for those with a professional licence.
"Handling the big jets" is a much more technical work, and much more interesting (and really the only one of the two you would want) for those with a professional licence.
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Davies' book was and still is the classic of its kind. Nothing has come close since it was first published. I am led to believe, although I haven't seen a new edition, that it is updated periodically to keep it on top of new technology. Someone will know!
D.P. Davies is very unlikely to update his book as he is now dead.
A useful introduction to jet flying, BUT look at the publication date. EFIS, FMS, fly by wire were still years away. Read it by all means, but make sure you have current information for the type you will be on, and use that in the event of any discrepancy.
Flying the Big Jets is useful to hand to a layman wanting basic information about airliners and is not nearly indepth enough for professional pilots.
A useful introduction to jet flying, BUT look at the publication date. EFIS, FMS, fly by wire were still years away. Read it by all means, but make sure you have current information for the type you will be on, and use that in the event of any discrepancy.
Flying the Big Jets is useful to hand to a layman wanting basic information about airliners and is not nearly indepth enough for professional pilots.
'Handling the Big Jets' was, and still is a classic, it should be required reading for anyone flying transport category jets.
Having said that, a follow on combining all of the originals attributes with well written explanations of modern systems, automation and electronics and the human interface with them is sorely needed.
Having said that, a follow on combining all of the originals attributes with well written explanations of modern systems, automation and electronics and the human interface with them is sorely needed.
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Be aware that "Handling the Big Jets" by D.P. Davies was issued to every newly hired Pan American pilot from 1969 until sometimes in the 1980s, as recommended flight training information for the 707, and in the third edition issued in the late 1970s, which included chapters about the 747.
xxx
As an instructor at the Academy, I never failed to quote paragraphs of that masterpiece for initial training classroom lectures in 707, 727 or 747 training programs. Despite modern technology airplanes, it remains highly recommended to anyone starting a career as jet pilot, and supplements the official issues of FCTMs by Boeing...
xxx
Another less known book, is "Fly the Wing" (by Jim Webb), an excellent source of information for the DC-9 or similar type of aircraft, which clarifies some concepts of FAR/JAR Part 25 performance, for twin jets.
xxx
Regarding "Flying the Big Jets" by Stanley Jones, I have not failed to read it as well, as an introduction to more modern aircraft equipment and vocabulary, however, D.P. Davies' masterpiece original remains the basic source of knowledge. After all, even modern airplanes such as Airbus types are not exempt from similar handling characteristics, and problems. In 2009, aircraft flying remains "lift as opposed to gravity" and "thrust as opposed to drag" despite EFIS and "fly by wire" concepts... Agreed...?
xxx
Despite the fact that I am now retired, "Handling the Big Jets" has remained my favorite bedside table book, and I open it, at times, to answer some questions that appear in Pprune...
xxx
I say again, a masterpiece and a "must read"... Make it your Bible or Quran...
Happy contrails
xxx
As an instructor at the Academy, I never failed to quote paragraphs of that masterpiece for initial training classroom lectures in 707, 727 or 747 training programs. Despite modern technology airplanes, it remains highly recommended to anyone starting a career as jet pilot, and supplements the official issues of FCTMs by Boeing...
xxx
Another less known book, is "Fly the Wing" (by Jim Webb), an excellent source of information for the DC-9 or similar type of aircraft, which clarifies some concepts of FAR/JAR Part 25 performance, for twin jets.
xxx
Regarding "Flying the Big Jets" by Stanley Jones, I have not failed to read it as well, as an introduction to more modern aircraft equipment and vocabulary, however, D.P. Davies' masterpiece original remains the basic source of knowledge. After all, even modern airplanes such as Airbus types are not exempt from similar handling characteristics, and problems. In 2009, aircraft flying remains "lift as opposed to gravity" and "thrust as opposed to drag" despite EFIS and "fly by wire" concepts... Agreed...?
xxx
Despite the fact that I am now retired, "Handling the Big Jets" has remained my favorite bedside table book, and I open it, at times, to answer some questions that appear in Pprune...
xxx
I say again, a masterpiece and a "must read"... Make it your Bible or Quran...
Happy contrails
I couldn't find anything tedious or unclear in the book, I'd appreciate if you would elaborate a little bit more - like which issues you find far from clear.
As far as I'm concerned, the book is a masterpiece - any current or aspiring jet transport pilot should read and understand it. In chapters dealing with handling differences, replace "piston" with "turboprop" and the book will look amazingly modern.
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However Checkboard is correct when he says that "Handling the Big Jets" is by far the better technical book for the professional pilot. It is actually an older book, being first published in 1967 and, as has been mentioned, it was issued to many of us at the time of our early jet conversions. It was written by D.P.Davies, who was then Chief Test Pilot of the UK Air Registration Board, and I would go so far as to say that it was at that time regarded as the definitive book on the subject.
Because of their age, neither book will of course now properly reflect current operations but, having said that, both books are a very good read in their own way.
JD
P.S. I have just seen that the latest (4th) Edition (2002) of Flying the Big Jets now includes the B777 and an account of a flight from LHR - BOS in the B777, so it should explain glass cockpits and other aspects of more modern operations. Another good read, I expect, but I haven't read it myself yet ...
Last edited by Jumbo Driver; 8th May 2009 at 14:24. Reason: P.S.
Definately read "Handling the Big Jets", especially if you have an interview coming up, it's a favourite basis for questions. Most of it is still relevent today, just remember it's based on Comet,Trident, VC10, B707, B727 and touches on the just introduced B747 classic.
Make sure any techniques suggested are still applicable to the type you will be flying. Make sure you know what's applicable to your type but isn't covered because it wasn't around back then.
Most of the pilots transitioning to jets these days won't be coming from DC3s and Viscounts, more likely a light twin or modern turboprop such as an ATR 42, SAAB 340 or Dash 8.
Just like your approach plates, there is no substitute for current information.
Make sure any techniques suggested are still applicable to the type you will be flying. Make sure you know what's applicable to your type but isn't covered because it wasn't around back then.
Most of the pilots transitioning to jets these days won't be coming from DC3s and Viscounts, more likely a light twin or modern turboprop such as an ATR 42, SAAB 340 or Dash 8.
Just like your approach plates, there is no substitute for current information.
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Metro man, what made you think that I was under the impression that Davies was other than deceased?
I stated that the book was periodically updated with each new edition. No mention of by whom.
I was fully aware the man had passed away, by the way.
I stated that the book was periodically updated with each new edition. No mention of by whom.
I was fully aware the man had passed away, by the way.
I have the third edition dated December 1971, REPRINTED April 1990. Do you understand the difference between "reprinted" - to print again, and "updated" - to bring up to date ? There are several online dictionaries available which will define the words for you.
BTW,on page 310 D.P.Davies talks about the limitations of the simulator. This would have been perfectly correct back in the early 1970s. These days we have zero flight time simulators and the realism is astounding.
BTW,on page 310 D.P.Davies talks about the limitations of the simulator. This would have been perfectly correct back in the early 1970s. These days we have zero flight time simulators and the realism is astounding.
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Do not criticize old or older publications and editions of books and manuals.
xxx
Boeing FCTMs as an example.
In the course of my job as instructor, I was always receiving latest editions.
Updates and corrections when warranted or required. New procedures as well.
xxx
For the 747 Classic - I had the latest edition 2001...
And at home, I found an old 747 FCTM which dated back to 1982.
Very little since 1982 had been changed.
But notoriously, the newer editions had reduced page contents.
Half the number of pages in a 2001 FCTM compared to 1982... Save the rain forests, probably.
The 1982 edition contains text, documentation, graphs and tables which later were supressed.
I valued that older edition, which I corrected by hand with some updates.
Rather prefer 400 pages than 250...
xxx
You gentlemen like "everything new and up-to-date"...?
Obviously, you dislike more detailed knowledge and data.
Starting to believe that, in this century, pilots suffer of mental atrophy.
xxx
Rocking my retirement chair - Happy contrails
xxx
Boeing FCTMs as an example.
In the course of my job as instructor, I was always receiving latest editions.
Updates and corrections when warranted or required. New procedures as well.
xxx
For the 747 Classic - I had the latest edition 2001...
And at home, I found an old 747 FCTM which dated back to 1982.
Very little since 1982 had been changed.
But notoriously, the newer editions had reduced page contents.
Half the number of pages in a 2001 FCTM compared to 1982... Save the rain forests, probably.
The 1982 edition contains text, documentation, graphs and tables which later were supressed.
I valued that older edition, which I corrected by hand with some updates.
Rather prefer 400 pages than 250...
xxx
You gentlemen like "everything new and up-to-date"...?
Obviously, you dislike more detailed knowledge and data.
Starting to believe that, in this century, pilots suffer of mental atrophy.
xxx
Rocking my retirement chair - Happy contrails
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Starting to believe that, in this century, pilots suffer of mental atrophy.
My present First Officer is of the latter type.
He is constantly asking questions about performance (just as one example), especially as we completed an engine unserviceable ferry not all that long ago.
It is indeed a pleasure to fly with folks like this, and he is rapidly on the road to an early Command....at age 27.
'To have superior knowledge is to greatly succeed' is an old saying, true yesterday, true today.
To have actual operating experience is also very important, of course, however....it is just as important to know why as to know how.
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BelArgUSA
It was not a criticism, I share some of your viewpoints but was meant more in the spirit of answering the OP which seemed to come from one in the earlier part of life and more likely to find the 777 of relevance within his lifetime.
You gentlemen like "everything new and up-to-date"...?
Always check for publication date, 2002 has 777 update.
See my earlier post regarding update vs reprint.