A320 TOGA selection and Go around mode
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A320 TOGA selection and Go around mode
Quote from FCOM 1 :
Ok, that all makes sense, however if this is so, then why doesn't the auto flight engage the go around mode when you select MAN TOGA airborne after an engine failure after take off ? All that happens is the setting of MAN TOGA thrust with no change to the other modes.
GO AROUND (GA) :
Go-around mode combines the speed reference system (SRS) vertical mode with the GA TRK lateral mode.
ENGAGEMENT CONDITIONS :
Setting at least one thrust lever to the TOGA detent engages both SRS/GA TRK modes,
if :
– The flaps lever is at least in position 1, and
– The aircraft is in flight, or
– The aircraft has been on ground for less than 30 seconds (AP disengages and can be re-engaged five seconds after lift-off).
The FMA displays “SRS” and “GA TRK” in green.
Go-around mode combines the speed reference system (SRS) vertical mode with the GA TRK lateral mode.
ENGAGEMENT CONDITIONS :
Setting at least one thrust lever to the TOGA detent engages both SRS/GA TRK modes,
if :
– The flaps lever is at least in position 1, and
– The aircraft is in flight, or
– The aircraft has been on ground for less than 30 seconds (AP disengages and can be re-engaged five seconds after lift-off).
The FMA displays “SRS” and “GA TRK” in green.
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From: Around the world.
Because you are not in the approach phase. You can set TOGA in the climb, not much will happen apart from MAN TOGA, and depending on your altitude, an increase in thrust; although at higher altitudes, bugger all will happen.
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Because you are not in the approach phase
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From: Europe
By that logic, the same could be asked why you don't get GA TRK if you go from flex to full TO power. Probably the first answer you got is the correct one! Don't dig too deep, you could hurt yourself 
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From: Moscow
Not probably, it is for sure. Approach phase has nothing in common with it, you will have automatically GA phase and to return to normal flight - just fly the aircraft, that is use needed modes. When convinient - activate approach phase and go to climb phase by inserting cruise level.
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From: Glorious West Sussex
Bagot..
I think it is to do with FMGS flight phase.. and the SRS speed targets..
The FMGS is in TAKEOFF phase, SRS is controlling at V2+10 or V2 (OEI). There are also disengagement conditions for the various modes for us to think about - selection of TOGA does not disengage the Takeoff SRS mode, it is done by selection of a different pitch mode, or reaching acceleration altitude.
When you push V/S to level off at acceleration altitude the pitch mode changes and - if you now go from FLEX to TOGA with Flap 1 or more you will get G/A modes. So if you wish to use TOGA do so before AA...
In other words, you get the G/A combined mode in any phase except TAKEOFF.
If Airbus wrote everything in FCOM ... we would need brains the size of a planet.
I think it is to do with FMGS flight phase.. and the SRS speed targets..
The FMGS is in TAKEOFF phase, SRS is controlling at V2+10 or V2 (OEI). There are also disengagement conditions for the various modes for us to think about - selection of TOGA does not disengage the Takeoff SRS mode, it is done by selection of a different pitch mode, or reaching acceleration altitude.
When you push V/S to level off at acceleration altitude the pitch mode changes and - if you now go from FLEX to TOGA with Flap 1 or more you will get G/A modes. So if you wish to use TOGA do so before AA...
In other words, you get the G/A combined mode in any phase except TAKEOFF.
If Airbus wrote everything in FCOM ... we would need brains the size of a planet.
Last edited by TyroPicard; 27th April 2009 at 14:05.
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If Airbus wrote everything in FCOM ... we would need brains the size of a planet.
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From: Glorious West Sussex
But it is in FCOM - but under disengagement conditions for Takeoff SRS mode......
Why would you want G/A mode with an EFTO? (If that is what you mean). It is not logical, Captain.
Yes, but its not nice when you learn these things by accident in the sim or real aircraft because it is not written anywhere
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From: Moscow
Iceman
May be you are right about much easiest way of coming to cruise or climb phase, but as for my test flights - that would not help. You have to do it just this way - activate and only than insert whatever you like. See switching conditions FCOM 4.02.20 p.11.
Tyro
Fully agree with 11.51 post
May be you are right about much easiest way of coming to cruise or climb phase, but as for my test flights - that would not help. You have to do it just this way - activate and only than insert whatever you like. See switching conditions FCOM 4.02.20 p.11.
Tyro
Fully agree with 11.51 post
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Why would you want G/A mode with an EFTO? (If that is what you mean). It is not logical, Captain.
Let me further explain :
I experienced an engine fire after take off during the initial climb before acceleration altitude (no power loss).
I shut down the engine on fire (in accordance with ECAM)
We were above acceleration altitude now and I had to select speed to prevent acceleration to 250 knots with one engine inoperative.
I selected TOGA (for better climb performance until we reach the engine out acceleration altitude)....but then the stupid thing went into G/A mode when I did not want it to !!
Not logical.
Not what I wanted.
You can say that it went into the G/A mode because I selected TOGA with flap out and that this meets the engagement conditions for the G/A mode. I agree, in accordance with FCOM
However why doesn't it enagage the G/A mode when you select TOGA before the acceleration altitude ? It is not in the G/A mode but you do meet all the prescribed conditions for engagement.
My instructor said that if you select TOGA below the acceleration altitude, then it will not engage the G/A mode. However if you set TOGA with flap out above the acceleration altitude, it will then engage the G/A mode. It would be nice if it clarified this in the FCOM.
If if does say this, then I can't find it anywhere.
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From: Europe
Ah ok, it all becomes clear now. You were accelerating already. The fact that you were accelerating means you pushed V/S or the ALT button, because the A320 does not accelerate out of its own on single engine. If it did, I dare say that it is a sim fault. But nevermind that, the fact that you accelerate means that SRS is not active anymore, you were probably in V/S or ALT mode. That means that if you subsequently select TOGA....you get the G/A mode. I know, I did the same not too long ago when I wanted to speed things up after the n'th engine failure for the day 
That's how you learn!
I'm not sure what your instructor is saying about the acceleration altitude itself having any effect on things. It's too early to open my FCOM.
That's how you learn!
I'm not sure what your instructor is saying about the acceleration altitude itself having any effect on things. It's too early to open my FCOM.
Last edited by PENKO; 28th April 2009 at 06:05.
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means you pushed V/S or the ALT button
does not accelerate out of its own on single engine
Yes, I agree, looks like thats how to learn. By making mistakes in the sim and learning things which are not perhaps documented very well.
Like I believe somewhere in the FCOM it should say that "it will NOT engage the G/A mode if still in SRS mode after takeoff (if this is how it works)"
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From: Europe
Hmmm...I'm struggling with the chronology of events, but if you passed acceleration altitude before shutting down one of the engines then for sure you would have been in CLB green automatically. Hence the acceleration, disengagement of SRS. And hence the activation of GA TRK when you went for TOGA.
As far as I can see it behaved by the book.
As far as I can see it behaved by the book.
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From: Glorious West Sussex
Yes, exactly, I did NOT want G/A mode, it is not logical, but it did happen.
We were above acceleration altitude now and I had to select speed to prevent acceleration to 250 knots with one engine inoperative.
I selected TOGA (for better climb performance until we reach the engine out acceleration altitude)....but then the stupid thing went into G/A mode when I did not want it to !!
I selected TOGA (for better climb performance until we reach the engine out acceleration altitude)....but then the stupid thing went into G/A mode when I did not want it to !!
Like I believe somewhere in the FCOM it should say that "it will NOT engage the G/A mode if still in SRS mode after takeoff (if this is how it works)"
No, I pulled speed actually to maintain speed, as at it changed from SRS to CLB mode on its own (passing through the acceleration altitude)
And although the managed speed target jumps to 250 KT (or the initial climb speed to be exact) when you pull ALT for OP CLB the target reverts to Green Dot OEI.
Hope that helps
Last edited by TyroPicard; 28th April 2009 at 11:12.
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From: Moscow
Bagot
All your chronology is logical. Fire in SRS, manual engine shutdown in CLB despite the FIRE in SRS. As there were no engine out conditions met SRS successfully transfered to CLB with respective target speed (ECON CLB - 250 in your case). You started ECAM - but speed was rising, you selected it, then shutdown according to ECAM. You set TOGA and you are in an unwritten situation in FCOM.
ECAM handling is high priority in FIRE. So even accelaration altitude is reccomended to be delayed untill agent dischargment - your speed selection is good. But after that you should level off for retraction and manage speed - the target will be now green dot, no need to select it. There is no need for TOGA, but even if it is set when out of SRS, just select/manage whatever you like.
No accurate reference for your request in FCOM, some usefull only 4.04.30 p.10-16a, 4.05.80 p.1, 1.22.30 p.56a, 57.
yes, it is not good when you met something not described, and moreover when you punished for that.
All your chronology is logical. Fire in SRS, manual engine shutdown in CLB despite the FIRE in SRS. As there were no engine out conditions met SRS successfully transfered to CLB with respective target speed (ECON CLB - 250 in your case). You started ECAM - but speed was rising, you selected it, then shutdown according to ECAM. You set TOGA and you are in an unwritten situation in FCOM.
ECAM handling is high priority in FIRE. So even accelaration altitude is reccomended to be delayed untill agent dischargment - your speed selection is good. But after that you should level off for retraction and manage speed - the target will be now green dot, no need to select it. There is no need for TOGA, but even if it is set when out of SRS, just select/manage whatever you like.
No accurate reference for your request in FCOM, some usefull only 4.04.30 p.10-16a, 4.05.80 p.1, 1.22.30 p.56a, 57.
yes, it is not good when you met something not described, and moreover when you punished for that.
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Remember that to engage a mode you have to disengage the existing mode
This mode change should not happen OEI - are you sure you remember the sequence of events correctly?
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From: Europe
Bagot, is your question answered? Or is there still a problem that I have overlooked? As far as I can see, the sim performed as it should! But I agree with you, it takes time and a lot of FCOM reading and re-reading to understand more or less how the system works.
Or is there still a problem that I have overlooked? As far as I can see, the sim performed as it should! But I agree with you, it takes time and a lot of FCOM reading and re-reading to understand more or less how the system works.