Sound of Wright vs Pratt Whitney (Super Constellation vs. DC4)
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 570
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From: MI
Old Fella -
Yes, I'm aware of that. Not sure why I referred to it as a 'blower' in that post. I've sat between enough of those PRTs to know. They DO blow though.
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411A -
Many times that depended on how each company operated their 3350s. Those that went by Wright's manual normally did alright. Those that came up with their own power settings for whatever reason, sometimes did not fair so well. I flew the Shuttle in the Connies and we had a nice low power setting (short segments) and I think those things went 3000 hours TBO.
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You 4360 lovers: go to You Tube and do a search on the B-36. The one with the clip from the movie Strategic Air Command with Jimmy Stewart has a good sound clip of one taking off.
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Spooky 2 -
Me too almost, except the C97 as Passenger only. Didn't fly the -7C, but close; the -7B. Didn't fly the 1049H, but the 1049, 1049C, and G models. Great machines. Didn't get rated in the Connie, but did in the DC-6/7.
For those who do not know, a PRT is a Power Recovery Turbine and it is not a "blower".
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411A -
The CurtisWright turbocompound engine was a paragon of efficiency, but somewhat unreliable in service.
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You 4360 lovers: go to You Tube and do a search on the B-36. The one with the clip from the movie Strategic Air Command with Jimmy Stewart has a good sound clip of one taking off.
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Spooky 2 -
I guess I'm fortunet as I flew the L1049H,DC6B/DC7C in airline service along with the C97 while in the Calif.
Last edited by DC-ATE; 19th February 2009 at 17:27.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
I was born just about 400 yards (metres) north of the main 31/13 runway at Prestwick airport nearly 68 years ago. You might say that I was heavily into aeroplanes for as long as I can remember.
The civilian aircraft in use when I was a youngster were DC-3s, DC-4s, DC-6s and DC-7s from the Douglas stable. L049, L749 and L1049 from Lockheed and the B377 Stratocruiser from Boeings. The odd Liberator, Languedoc, C-46 and even a Fokker XXII went by occasionally.
The USAF supplied such aircraft as the B-17, B-29, B-50, B-36, C-47, C-54, C-74, C-82, C-97, C-118, C-119 and C-124. The US Navy provided P2V Neptunes and the odd Martin Mercator.
There were many others.
To get back to the thread, I could lie in bed at night and identify most of them with quite a degree of reliability just by listening to the engine noise.
I slept very well despite the noise. In fact it wasn't noise to me but music. Only two things would wake me; the first was an unusual noise and the second was the Grumman Albatross with which 67th ARS was equipped. That aeroplane made so much noise that it could wake the dead 200 nms away. If I remember correctly, the engine was un-geared so the prop tips were supersonic (like the T-6/Harvard).
Isn't nostalgia a wonderful thing?
The civilian aircraft in use when I was a youngster were DC-3s, DC-4s, DC-6s and DC-7s from the Douglas stable. L049, L749 and L1049 from Lockheed and the B377 Stratocruiser from Boeings. The odd Liberator, Languedoc, C-46 and even a Fokker XXII went by occasionally.
The USAF supplied such aircraft as the B-17, B-29, B-50, B-36, C-47, C-54, C-74, C-82, C-97, C-118, C-119 and C-124. The US Navy provided P2V Neptunes and the odd Martin Mercator.
There were many others.
To get back to the thread, I could lie in bed at night and identify most of them with quite a degree of reliability just by listening to the engine noise.
I slept very well despite the noise. In fact it wasn't noise to me but music. Only two things would wake me; the first was an unusual noise and the second was the Grumman Albatross with which 67th ARS was equipped. That aeroplane made so much noise that it could wake the dead 200 nms away. If I remember correctly, the engine was un-geared so the prop tips were supersonic (like the T-6/Harvard).
Isn't nostalgia a wonderful thing?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: The New Forest, UK
JW411
was born just about 400 yards (metres) north of the main 31/13 runway at Prestwick airport nearly 68 years ago.
You must have seen quite a few Strats as Prestwick was a must stop for BOAC & PanAm oceanic flights. You must also have memory of the G-ALSA Christmas Day 1954 incident then.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3
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From: Wethersfield, CT
Need Help With Getting an R4360 Running
I've enjoyed your threads on Wasp Majors. I need your help, to the dismay of my wife, I now have one in my garage I'm working to get running. It is complete but without a prop. My best guess is that by inspection of the cowl brackets it was last on a Boeing 377. This engine was last used by P&W for generating wind gusts for turbine engine testing where I work. It last ran about twenty years a go. I've rebuilt the starter and fuel pump, diassembled the carb and ordered some diaphrams to start reassembly, replaced one of the Scintilla mags. And even though Graham White's book is a lot of help and I do have access to the P&W archives I still have some questions. I'm hoping this group will be able to help too.
Is there a port that shows when the engine is at TDC for A1 so I can check mag timing?
Is there a way to peek inside the mag gear case and prop gear case to check things out in there?
What pressure should I set the fuel pump at?
There are four ~1" connections to the intake manifold just in front of the carb at the top of the engine, where to these go or what are they used for?
Where is the best place to connect my fuel, oil and manifold gages?
What is the minimum oil tank size to run the engine for 5 minutes or so?
Do I have to get the mil spec oil?
How much fuel will it burn? Is 97 octane ok or do I have to get av gas?
What boost voltage do I need to energize the mags for spark at startup?
Does anyone know where there might be a club prop or ground damaged props I could cut down to install?
Does anyone know where an engine test stand might be located to save me from building a sturdier stand than what I have now?
What should I be checking for in the oil sump?
Well, there you have it. There are lots more questions but have run out right now. Any help you guys can provide will be appreciated.
Is there a port that shows when the engine is at TDC for A1 so I can check mag timing?
Is there a way to peek inside the mag gear case and prop gear case to check things out in there?
What pressure should I set the fuel pump at?
There are four ~1" connections to the intake manifold just in front of the carb at the top of the engine, where to these go or what are they used for?
Where is the best place to connect my fuel, oil and manifold gages?
What is the minimum oil tank size to run the engine for 5 minutes or so?
Do I have to get the mil spec oil?
How much fuel will it burn? Is 97 octane ok or do I have to get av gas?
What boost voltage do I need to energize the mags for spark at startup?
Does anyone know where there might be a club prop or ground damaged props I could cut down to install?
Does anyone know where an engine test stand might be located to save me from building a sturdier stand than what I have now?
What should I be checking for in the oil sump?
Well, there you have it. There are lots more questions but have run out right now. Any help you guys can provide will be appreciated.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 570
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From: MI
Maybe you can get hold of this guy for some answers.
YouTube - Pratt and Whitney R-4360 - Run October 2, 2008 Penngrove, CA
There's a couple of videos on there where they don't use a prop at all?!?!
YouTube - Pratt and Whitney R-4360 - Run October 2, 2008 Penngrove, CA
There's a couple of videos on there where they don't use a prop at all?!?!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 22
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From: Canterbury, New Zealand
Grin producing sights and sounds out here again today. Beautifully restored Harvard doing lazy aerobatics over the beach, orange and silver paintwork bright against the grey overcast. Definitely a distinctive noise compared to the usual Tomahawks and Warriors. 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,581
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From: flyover country USA
...last used by P&W for generating wind gusts for turbine engine testing where I work.
Just for a kick, you might check around on Ebay for tooling and test hardware - maybe even a prop.
If New England Air Museum (formerly Bradley Air Museum) is still around, they might have a lead on a prop.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3
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From: Wethersfield, CT
R4360 - New England Air Museum
I'll get over there and see what they might have for frame hardware and prop. I stopped there about a year ago when I got the engine but it was a bad time for them. As I'm getting closer to start up, I'll stop in a again and let them know my progress and plan. I started a blog on blog.com called Joel's R4360 Radial Engine. I've been putting updates and pictures there if you are interested.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 2
From: In a far better place
There was nothing more beautiful to the eyes, ears, nose, and butt when awakening my P&W R985 just after first light. The air was crisp, the water would be like glass with a hint of mist hugging the water.
It was as if each cylinder would wake up until all 9 cylinders were firing, but still struggling to come to life. After the motor is warm and increase power all 9 are singing such a sweet song.
DeHavilland DHC-2 Beaver
It was as if each cylinder would wake up until all 9 cylinders were firing, but still struggling to come to life. After the motor is warm and increase power all 9 are singing such a sweet song.
DeHavilland DHC-2 Beaver
Last edited by captjns; 22nd February 2009 at 19:43.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
b377:
I do apologise but I have only just found your reply. It would be fair to say that I saw and heard a lot of Stratocruisers in my younger days at Prestwick. I can just remember those of AOA (American Overseas Airlines) before they became part of Pan American.
The Stratocruisers of Pan American and BOAC visited on a daily basis. I do remember vividly getting up on Christmas Day 1954 and seeing the plume of black smoke coming from the wreckage of G-ALSA (I have mentioned this on pprune before).
Of course, the USAF provided lots and lots of C-97s and KC-97s also. The earliest that I recorded was a YC-97 45-59589 (with the B-29 short fin and rudder) and the most advanced was the turboprop YC-97J 52-2693.
I do apologise but I have only just found your reply. It would be fair to say that I saw and heard a lot of Stratocruisers in my younger days at Prestwick. I can just remember those of AOA (American Overseas Airlines) before they became part of Pan American.
The Stratocruisers of Pan American and BOAC visited on a daily basis. I do remember vividly getting up on Christmas Day 1954 and seeing the plume of black smoke coming from the wreckage of G-ALSA (I have mentioned this on pprune before).
Of course, the USAF provided lots and lots of C-97s and KC-97s also. The earliest that I recorded was a YC-97 45-59589 (with the B-29 short fin and rudder) and the most advanced was the turboprop YC-97J 52-2693.
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 89
Likes: 6
From: Christchurch
JW411 wonders if the Wright Cyclones (R-1820-76) as fitted to the USAF's SA-16 Albatross amphibians were direct drive - they were not. According to tables of American aero engine specifications, the -76A and -76B (standard for the SA-16) had 3:2 reduction gearing. However there were ungeared versions of the R-1820 available (which I was previously unaware of) and listed in these tables, including the R1820-50 and the -103 series. Not certain of their particular applications.
David D
David D
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: LSZH
I heard all of them, some from the inside.
<[QUOTE=b377;4728705]Ok, this one will bring tears to the vintage flyers amoung you with memories and a soft spot for pistons ...
<Not sure about the DC7 which also had Wrights.
After my last flight in a DC-4 I almost shed a tear or two when they shut the engines down. The DC--7 and the Super Connie had the same engines but the big difference was four vs. three blade props. I remember the DC-7 when I was a kid, and in the 2010 I was around and inside a Connie often. The DC-7 sounds smoother.
<Not sure about the DC7 which also had Wrights.
After my last flight in a DC-4 I almost shed a tear or two when they shut the engines down. The DC--7 and the Super Connie had the same engines but the big difference was four vs. three blade props. I remember the DC-7 when I was a kid, and in the 2010 I was around and inside a Connie often. The DC-7 sounds smoother.
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: LSZH
The C47 and the C46 are completely different. The C-47 has the smooth, less loud sound, while the bigger engines on the C46 (like the ones on the were R-2800 while the ones on the C47 were R-1830. With the much larger cylinder displacement, there is a huge sound difference.
