'Toxic' cabin air found in new plane study - Telegraph

[wbble]

The independent gave a full page to Aerotoxic Syndrome this morning ...

The Independent: Cabin fever: A bad case of Aerotoxic syndrome?

[hydroplane]

TNT Airways sacks pilot-activist who drew attention to "aerotoxic syndrome"

According to a Dutch newspaper Kristof Van Gerven (35) a TNT pilot living in Genk (Belgium) was sacked by TNT Airways because he drew to much attention to what is taboo in the business "aerotoxic syndrome"!

In Dutch, "Planes are flying gass chambers..." http://www.hbvl.be/limburg/genk/het-zijn-vliegende-gaskamers.aspx

Google translation (beware for...):
Kristof Van Gerven 29/08 (35) from Genk was dismissed last week by courier company TNT Airways. There was no reason given, but perhaps he was put on the door because he was one of the few pilots a problem proposed that the airline industry for decades to suppress: that the air in most planes heavily polluted by highly toxic substances.

World suffer thousands of pilots, cabin crew and passengers on the so-called aero toxic syndrome, also known as the "asbestos of the air" mentioned. "Most appliances are flying gas chamber," Van Gerven.

He went in August 2000 as a pilot to work with TNT Airways Bierset. In 2003 he was the Dutch top photographer Anton Corbijn has Snapped at the cover of the annual report of TNT Airways, to adorn, but last week, the company made the pilot to the door. In the resignation letter gave no reason, but Van Gerven suspects that his long illness was the cause.

Asbestos Scandal of the air

In November 2007 the Limburger was forced to stop flying. Ill, by the polluted air on board the aircraft. Aero Toxic Syndrome, was the diagnosis. "This is a general term for health problems that you incur when your polluted air on board an aircraft have breathed," said Van Gerven.

"It affects everyone on board, pilots, cabin crew and passengers." The aviation industry remains silent about it for decades, but recently more and more articles appearing on what the "scandal of the Asbestos air 'painting.

In the 60s, the pure air through a compressor placed separately in the passenger cabin. Engineers have calculated that they could save weight and place when the air aftakten by the engine goes, the so-called bleed air system. "The idea is good in theory, to eventually follow, the inevitable leakage of oil in the combustion process correctly. This will organe phosphates in the air, including toxic and harmful TCP. "Frightening, because all aircraft in use today have some bleed air system. Only the latest Boeing 787 that will soon not start his career.

The toxic substances can cause problems in the short and long term. Short term symptoms are disorientation, tired eyes, irritated airways, breathing difficulties, coughing, vomiting, loss of balance, dizziness, tremor, blurred vision and headaches.

Lost consciousness

"In the beginning you think you are tired or cold and just keep working. So sometime I lost consciousness at the controls. Only when I start asking me questions and I soon noticed that I was not alone. Only attempt the sector - manufacturers and airlines - to conceal this. The fact is that most aircraft are flying gas chamber. Independent measurements have shown that the air on board is often heavily polluted. "Long-term exposure can lead to memory loss, acute diarrhea, respiratory problems, increased heart rate, hair loss, skin rashes, muscle pains, difficulty sleeping, increased sensitivity to chemicals and chronic fatigue. Van Gerven, whose sentences are constantly interrupted by coughing, suffering from most of these inconveniences. "I'm not the same. Previously I took part in triathlons, today I can not walk without my 100 meter air needs to happen. "

There is also a social drama. Thus, Van Gerven since November 2007 he was almost incapable of work have no money. "In the beginning I got unemployment, but fell away after six months. Now I get through a hole in the social legislation. No pay, no sickness and no unemployment benefits. To my resignation last week I received my monthly TNT Airways however loonbrief.Altijd same amount: 0 euro. "

Van Gerven flew above the BAe 146. The unit of British Aerospace manufacturer has a bad reputation in terms of air quality. "Most pilots or crew members have already become ill during flights of this type. "Currently there are more than 150 aircraft in use by the most famous airlines. TNT Airways has 14 copies still serve. Remarkable, because in its own bulletin in black and white that the high disease rate in the BAe 146 fleet is a major problem. And in the maintenance record is often reported problems with the oil. Van Gerven: "First I want to be known and solved problem. Even sick people every day without knowing the cause. More importantly, every day there are still risks. For the ignorant passengers. "

The probability is that Van Gerven his dream job can ever perform is nil. "My pilot training has cost 60,000 euros. But I will never fly an airplane. Why I retrained as a helicopter pilot. Such training also cost a fortune, around 90,000 euros, but if I can continue to fly without that I have to breathe polluted air. "

Roel Damian

[Pace]

"Long-term exposure can lead to memory loss, acute diarrhea, respiratory problems, increased heart rate, hair loss, skin rashes, muscle pains, difficulty sleeping, increased sensitivity to chemicals and chronic fatigue.

The problem with this and various "war syndromes" is the symptoms are very like stress.

Bring a soldier back from war where he might suffer post traumatic stress disorder and it packages up much better to claim the symtomes are caused by exposure to some unknown gas give it a name and sue for millions.

Maybe stress disorders are not an emotional issue but a chemical issue? Once claimed by people having conventional metal fillings in their teeth.

There has to be demonstrable reactions which can be scientifically proved to come from bleed air for anyone to do anything. At present there is no such concrete evidence and little will power to get to the truth.

On the Citation I fly loosing the aircraft heating requires using unfiltered air direct from the engine to restore heat at altitude which in this case doesnt bode well for the occupants if true.

It puts a question mark over the procedures recommended in the emergency flight manual.

Pace

[cessnapuppy]

This is sad, but it's not news

Same issue with Rainboe in the cockpit area back in the 70's/80's

Even a much smaller case, far from the headlines, can provoke
Boeing's legal tenacity if manufacturing liability is at issue.
In the late 1980s, Lance Schaeffer, a San Diego attorney,
represented a USAir pilot, Richard O'Harren, in what became a
knock-down, drag-out legal battle with Gerrard and Boeing.

Boeing ultimately paid O'Harren $317,000 in compensatory
damages and legal fees, after a six-year fight, for injuries O'Harren
suffered when he was sprayed in the face by a windshield rain
repellent called RainBoe.

Invented by Boeing in the mid-'60s, RainBoe became standard
equipment on jetliners. It was usually stored in a canister inside the
cabin, within arm's reach of the pilot. Sometimes the canister
leaked.

Boeing to this day contends RainBoe is nontoxic, though 95
percent of it is a solvent, Freon 113, which has been blamed in at
least 12 deaths in industrial settings.

At a 1990 trial, Schaeffer produced substantial evidence that
Freon 113 attacks the human central nervous system, causing
disorientation, motor-skills impairment and sudden heart attack.
Schaeffer also established that there was a pattern of RainBoe
canisters leaking.

Led by Gerrard, Boeing's defense team disputed that RainBoe
was toxic, denied the company was aware of any instances of it
leaking and tried to portray O'Harren as a malingerer, court
documents show. The case swung in O'Harren's favor when the
company finally produced reports, years after Schaeffer first
requested them, indicating one airline had reported 55 RainBoe
leak incidents in a five-year period. There was a service history of
problems, after all.

You think its bad NOW, wait till Aum_Shinrikyo buys an airline ticket!

[mpjswart]

Whether it is TCP, a derivative or something harmless, the smell known as "wet sock smell" or "damp dog smell" is very very very similar to the smell of valerian acid, an oil based chemical used as esters to produce perfume.
If the smell is considered normal by some, can anyone explain to me quite simply How this oil based chemical enters the airconditioning system and why it's usually starting to happen around 5 minutes after T/D.?
I think if an airliner patents a new airconditioning system that's able to filter whatever compound that causes this will see a huge profit increase.

[Dream Buster]

The best kept secret in aviation

mpjswart,

Aerotoxic Assiociation - Support for sufferers of Aerotoxic Syndrome should answer your questions.

DB

[Whippersnapper]

The reason the contamination enters the aircon/pressurisation system is that it comes from the engine or PU compressor and is unfiltered. the reason you may notice it more frequently about 5 minutes after touchdown would suggest the type you are flying on is more prone to APU bleed contamination than engine contamination.

This is a serious issue (I know - I've had it). It is likely to be a contributory or principle factor in many "human factors/pilot error" accidents and incidents.

Banning TCP from engine oils would be a start, as would fitting filters to the outputs of the aircon packs. Boeing's decision to make the B787's pressurisation air source separate from the engines and APU is indicative of their internal acknowledgement of the issue ad is a welcome step in eliminating the problem entirely. It is appalling that Airbus did not do the same on the A380 or intending to do the same on the A350. I don't think any new aircraft should be certified if it uses bleed air for the cabin/flt deck.

[Nemrytter]

Apologies for my ignorance on this issue, but is there any scientific evidence for aerotoxic syndrome?
I've spent a while searching the normal sources for information and can't really find any articles about it. Have there ever been any in-depth studies as to the pollutants present within cabin air (based upon chemical analysis, not theory) or the effects of such pollutants upon crew/SLF?

[awblain]

Let's concentrate on the potentially dangerous part of `aerotoxicity': from all the reports, it seems to be ONLY engine oil contamination of cabin air.

Organophosphate components of turbine oil are essential to ensure the extreme reliability, longevity (and thus safety) of engines; however, they are very toxic to the nervous system. Nothing else that would get into cabin air is anything like as nasty.

Exposure of this type of material for a large crowd of punters can be found in farmers using sheep dip, and led to very nasty long-term consequences. Sheep farmers did effectively bathe in the stuff, though, and the concentrations of toxic compounds were higher (since the insecticide was the main ingredient). Farmers didn't however have to worry too much about losing high levels of concentration at work.

Active study of the levels and long-term exposure seems to be justified. There's a large number of former flyers that can be used in these studies. They all have excellent career-long medical histories available, and a good history of hours flown per type.

The move to `more electric' architectures, and pressing for improvements in the inspection, performance and lifetime of oil seals would also seem to be a sensible precaution.

[wbble]

Another news video from Fox news about cabin air quality and Aerotoxic Syndrome: Is Something In the Air When You Fly?

WASHINGTON, D.C. - When you get on a plane, you see the flight attendants, the passengers, even the bags getting on board.

What you don’t see is something else that might be sneaking into your cabin.

“Everyone was getting sick from First Class all the way to the back. People were vomiting.”

In 2000, flight attendant Ruth Medina says she was working on a 747 headed to Japan when, four hours into the flight, she says nearly everyone became ill.

“By that time, I had been flying for 28 years,” Medina says. “So, I had never witnessed anything like this before.”

Medina says she felt nauseous for the next 24 hours before she and her crewmates boarded the same plane to head back to the United States.

“The same thing happened,” Medina says. “Four hours into the flight, the entire aircraft was ill again. People were vomiting and they were just sick.”

This time, Medina says she also got sick and now, nine years later, she says she’s still dealing with confusion and other neurological problems. She is now one of several flight attendants who sued airlines saying they were exposed to toxic chemicals in the cabin’s air supply.

"There are chemicals that are in hydraulic fluid or jet fuel that can get brought into the air of the aircraft," says University of California San Francisco Occupational Medicine Specialist Dr. Robert Harrison.

Harrison says Medina was exposed to toxic chemicals in the plane’s “bleed air,” outside air that comes through the engines into the air conditioning system.

He explains that, "This problem occurs when the mechanical system of the aircraft malfunctions and these products, when they're burned, get into the air supply system and are circulated around the cabin air.”

The contaminated air, Harrison says, is similar to what you would find in dangerous pesticides and can lead to temporary symptoms that may be confused with jet lag. Sometimes, he says, the symptoms can develop into more chronic neurological problems like headaches, dizziness, loss of memory and concentration.

"The name for it is Aerotoxic Syndrome," Harrison says.

Aerospace Medical Association Executive Director Russell Raymond disagrees.

"That term has been discredited,” Raymond says. “It implies the airliner cabin is unhealthful and there are toxic substances in the cabin. That is not true."

Raymond’s group is made up of doctors and scientists who study medical problems with air travel, including bleed air. He says most airplanes use filters and the air inside a plane is actually cleaner than most people’s homes. "There are sometimes events in flights, but I think they are very, very rare and very unusual."

The Federal Aviation Administration says when toxins do get into the air supply; it’s called a “fume event” and must be reported to the FAA.

The FAA says there have only been 900 of these fume events in the last 10 years.

Others argue it’s more common. “We estimate that this happens approximately once every 4-5,000 flights,” Harrison says.

But former commercial pilot Captain John Hoyte says you probably wouldn’t even know about it because the airlines don’t have to tell you if you’ve been exposed.

"It’s a very well kept secret what's going on here,” Hoyte says. “I think most people wouldn't actually understand what was affecting them at the time. That was the case with me. I only found out about it a year after I stopped flying."

After more than 30 years in the air, Hoyte says he began to have memory and speech problems so severe, he was forced to quit. “One flight in 2002, the whole passenger cabin filled with white fumes.”

To push the airlines into using different air supplies, Hoyte started a website devoted to Aerotoxic Syndrome (Aerotoxic Assiociation - Support for sufferers of Aerotoxic Syndrome).

Ruth Medina says she still gets so disoriented, she gets lost in the same neighborhood she grew up in. “I got confused and couldn’t find my way home.”

The FAA says it takes these kinds of complaints seriously and has scientists working on a device that could test for toxins inside airplanes. But it could take years to develop the technology.

Leaving millions of passengers to wonder if they feel sick because of jet lag or because of something else floating in the air.

[Croqueteer]

I flew the 146 for 17 years and was a sceptic of air pollution problems. I have now lost both kidneys due to my immune system attacking my kidneys and then my lungs, and it would seem that the immune system is the prime target of TCP contamination. What is my next step?

[deeceethree]

Croqueteer,

I suggest you look here:
Aerotoxic Assiociation - Support for sufferers of Aerotoxic Syndrome

and also here:
Toxic Free Airlines

[ZQA297/30]

Thinking back on it (a decade or more, so please forgive any memory lapses), we often used to notice a "hot cabin air" smell when someone (including automatics) overdid the demand for cabin heat. We used to think it was "just a little oil" condensed in the ducting, and being evaporated off by high duct temp.

Top of descent will call for engines back to idle, but at the same time enough bleed pressure to pump the cabin down, and possibly high cabin heat demand too. On some engines a high/low bleed system will go into high, and hot relatively high pressure bleed air will be run through the ducting, evaporating any volatile condensates in the ducting, even before the aircon packs, and possibly downstream too.

If there are organo-phosphates in the oil these could well be released into the cabin in this way. I don't know enough about organic chemistry to have an idea of evaporation or condensation temps, but I would not be surprised to find both in the operating range of of aircraft press/aircon systems.

[Dream Buster]

EASA Survey on Contaminated cabin air

EASA Survey on contaminated cabin air.

http://hub.easa.europa.eu/crt/docs/viewnpa/id_81

Please take 5 mins to fill in this survey at the end of the document on contaminated air, asap.

Remember, if you say nothing - EASA will assume that everything is OK......

DB

[lomapaseo]

The EASA NPA, discussion and survey is a decent document and path to resolution of this subject. Lots of well thought out information and explanations on this highly subjective subject.

However my read of it, is that it is initially addressing any needs and/or means for assessing the depth of the problem as it relates to regulated aviation safety. In the end this forum's thread will likely continue for a few more years.

[Dream Buster]

EASA Survey on Contaminated cabin air - web site crash..

Following yesterdays post, it would appear that the EASA web site

http://hub.easa.europa.eu/crt/docs/viewnpa/id_81 has crashed - probably due to the number of people trying to input information.

Here is an alternative link

European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) Cabin Air Quality survey

As you can imagine, EASA want as much evidence as possible (not) - so be sure to try again when it is............. 'fixed'

DB

[Whippersnapper]

[qouote=simonpro]Apologies for my ignorance on this issue, but is there any scientific evidence for aerotoxic syndrome?[/quote]

There is plenty of proof. Aside form the numerous incident reports and court cases (which many plaintiffs have won), there is the concrete knowledge of what organophosphate poisoning does to the human physiology and neurology, mainly from experience within the agricultural community. It is also an establiished fact that oils and skydrol create organophosphates when they break down due to the high temperatures encountered within the bleed air system.

[thapr2]

awblain - quote- 'Organophosphate components of turbine oil are essential to ensure the extreme reliability, longevity (and thus safety) of engines; however, they are very toxic to the nervous system. Nothing else that would get into cabin air is anything like as nasty.'

In fact there are many other things which are just as nasty as TCP, for example acrolein - an aldehyde which may be formed on the decomposition of turbine engine oils. Carbon monoxide (in non lethal doses) can also give rise to some of the symptoms and would fit more with the instances where pilots are revived by oxygen. Carbon monoxide doesn't really explain the long term effects but suggest have a look at acrolein.

[Basil]

. . and, of course, there's just walking along a city street in amongst the cars, buses, lorries, two strokes, strimmers, chain saws.

[lomapaseo]

. and, of course, there's just walking along a city street in amongst the cars, buses, lorries, two strokes, strimmers, chain saws.

most people that take this walk eventually die from a host of maladies, but they haven't identified a specific link yet except by inference.

I probably have inhaled more oil fumes with these compounds then most folks alive today, but I'm still not sure which one of my many ills has been caused by them.