'Toxic' cabin air found in new plane study - Telegraph
 

"Samples taken secretly from the planes of popular airlines have raised fresh concerns over passengers inhaling contaminated air."

'Toxic' cabin air found in new plane study - Telegraph

Seems this contaminated cabin air issue keeps raising its head, and the industry still needs to sort it out!

Indeed it does need sorting out one way or the other. However I would take issue with:-

That is quite some group of workers but was not aware that I had signed up to it. Has anyone?

yep i have


Neil

More about the samples and results as well as reactions can be found here:

The toxic subject that won't die - Learmount


happy (fume- and oilsmell-less) landings

TvB

Is it really oil???
 

Whilst not wanting to lessen the concern on oil contamination, how much of it is down to perception?

A recent incident was down to spilt milk in the galley. The incidences are moving to other fleets also.

Funny smell, can't quite put your finger on it? Only momentary? Was it atmospheric ie. the area you are passing over?

Every report at my company is considered seriously and testing of systems is carried out. Usually nothing is found. If anything is found further action is taken.

As regards to this "secret" testing, does the report give aircraft types?

OK, just read the Flight Global write up!

KB, I guess, until the potential for oil fume contamination has been eliminated, and as the whole topic gets more and more publicity, we are going to find more and more people reporting things which would otherwise have been missed or dismissed at the time. You do have a valid point but, given the apparent risks associated with this contamination, I would expect the level of reports, including false alarms, to increase.

Hot 'n' High

It would be intresting reading to see all reports, all aircraft types, at what stage of flight ..... and destination (possible conspiracy to stay at a lovely destination?) Sorry being a bit cynical here. I agree that all reports should be made so as to build a history. Without the ammunition, there is no case. I certainly would not want to be on flights where these incidences occur, self preservation and all that.

KB,

Quite agree! Me neither! :ooh:

Once, some years back, as Mil pax, got marooned in Bermuda for three days when the Herkybird went "Tech"! Now, that was tough!!! :ok:

At least this topic is being discussed more widely. However, just to be even more cynical than you (:}) I suspect nothing much will really happen until the Lawyers jump on the bandwaggon! :ugh:

Like to know if anyone in Design is looking into this so, at least, the next generation don't suffer from this? One hell of a Mod programme for existing fleets ...... so probably nothing going to happen there - for a while!

H 'n' H exits "Cynic Mode"!!!!!

Times and concentrations?
 

There's no indication in the Flight Global report of the concentrations of TCP in the air of the aircraft, or how long it took for the amount they found to accumulate. Is it a long-term slow release, or occasional rapid release (isolated "smoke or fume" events)? So it doesn't seem possible to work out the exposure to people, let alone the hazard of that exposure, from what has been found so far.
It could be high exposure and significant hazard, or low exposure and no hazard. More Research Needed, panic not justified by this evidence yet.

I Address this with new people...

Question:
Was flying better when smoking was allowed? Did they usa Oxygen Packs instead of bleed air? Someone in that link commented that their chest hurts more since the banned smoking...I hate smoke btw

from the Telegraph report:They seem to have forgotten to add, "and countless thousands of airline crew, both cabin and flight deck." :hmm:

Put it in the box with MMR vaccine and aspartame. How long have we been flying, how many people fly each day, how many crew have been working all of their lives on aircraft? :rolleyes:

before everyone gets on their high horse lets put this into perspective. Numerous 'studies' have been done - as a previous poster has said, no mention of concentrations, type of release etc etc. As these people obviously have an axe to grind i would assume that if any real scientific evidence of a problem were found then they would be publishing it far an wide. The silence on the hard data speaks volumes really.
Also one of the most vocal proponents of this problem that I used to work with smoked 40 a day, however was quite happy to keep trying to bash the company about this issue! This was clearly more of a political issue for him than a health issue.
Also how about some relative data - what is the air quality like sat in a traffic jam on the M25, or in a totally sealed airconditioned office (where most of the rest of the population work) eh? I bet there are equivelent risks everywhere.
I recently spent a week in a central asain city and came home with a cracking headache, and bad throat / runny nose etc. Bad cabin air? Nope - horrific polution and traffic fumes in the city. I know which parts of my job I'm more worried about and where I feel my health is most at risk - and it aint on the flight deck!

It's not all about the health of those onboard.
The symptoms of some fume events are said to include dizzyness, lack of co-ordination and loss of short-term memory. None of which are needed on a busy SID.

AAIB medical symptoms
 

For those who are STILL unaware of the type of medical problems that affect some crews - the following are official AAIB (Air Accident Investigation Branch - sic) descriptions of the medical effects on aircrew.

Passengers / customers don't count. Sorry.

The AAIB are not known for exaggeration and do not seem keen to want to face up to the reality of the issue either.

Unbelievable but true.

Aplogies for the length, but the evidence is ... overwhelming?

Extracts from actual UK AAIB (Air Accident Investigation Branch) reports.

All of these official statements are from different actual flying incidents and give an idea of the effect of the fumes on the flight crews.

• The pilot in command, following the onset of these fumes, had difficulty in concentrating on the operation of the aircraft, and suffered from a loss of situational awareness.

• …the crew had difficulty explaining the urgency of the situation (Aircraft diverted to Paris due to fumes and a smell of oil in the flight deck) to air traffic control.

• During the first flight the purser experienced an unpleasant feeling of fainting. She told the other two cabin crew members about this and they stated they had experienced something similar. They did not recognise any special odour.

• During the subsequent flight one of the cabin attendants who was placed in the forward part of the cabin experienced an odd pressure in the head, nasal itching and ear pain. The other two colleagues in the cabin also felt discomfort and the feeling of “moon walk” while working.

• The third flight the same day was flown by the Commander. During the flight, which took place at a cruising altitude of FL 280, all three members of the cabin crew experienced similar discomfort as during the preceding two flights but more pronounced. During the first portion of the flight the pilots did not notice anything abnormal but shortly before they were to leave cruising altitude the Commander began to feel a mild dizziness.

During the approach into Malmo/Sturup airport when the aircraft was descending through FL 150 the Co Pilot suddenly became nauseous and immediately donned his oxygen mask. Then, after an estimated period of ten seconds, the Commander also became very nauseous and immediately donned his oxygen mask. After a few seconds of breathing in the oxygen mask the Co Pilot felt better and thereafter had no difficulty in performing his duties. However the Commander felt markedly dizzy and groggy for a couple of minutes.
He had difficulty with physiological motor response, simultaneity and in focussing. Finally he handed over control to the Co Pilot. After having breathed oxygen for a few minutes even the Captain began to feel better and landing on Runway 27 without problems.

This incident was caused by the pilots becoming temporarily affected by probably polluted cabin air.

• All four cabin crew members reported feeling nauseous following passenger disembarkation, but they did not realise that they all had been similarly affected during the descent until the matter was discussed between themselves after landing. In addition to nausea, they reported feeling light headed and hot, but neither the flight crew nor passengers reportedly suffered any ill effects. The aircraft was reported to have had a history of such events and, despite satisfactory ground tests after this incident, similar symptoms were reported two days later by a different cabin crew when working in the forward galley.

• During the climb, the Senior Cabin Attendant (SCA) entered the flight deck to report that two passengers towards the left rear of the cabin had informed that they had noticed an oily/petrol like smell. In addition, a cabin crew member of a Company BAe 146 positioning crew had also reported a similar smell.

He (First Officer) sat in his seat but began to feel progressively worse, although his work load was low. He felt ‘light headed’ and had difficulty concentrating. He was aware of a tingling feeling in his finger tips and his arms started shaking.

At about this time the Commander also began to feel nauseous and asked the First Officer how he felt. The First Officer replied that he “felt dreadful” and the Commander looked at him and saw his face was white and that his pupils appeared dilated.

When she (SCA) arrived, the First Officer was on 100% oxygen, his seat was well back from the aircraft controls and his hands were seen to be trembling.

The Commander was feeling progressively worse. He felt light headed and recalled considering three aspects: landing, declaring an emergency and putting on his oxygen mask. However he felt able to cope only with one decision and continued his approach.

…the Commander seemed to have ‘double vision’ and had difficulty in judging height.

The Commander noted afterwards that it was all he could do just to land the aircraft as by now he felt very light headed and tired.

He (First Officer) did not consider that being on oxygen had made him feel better only after he had left the aircraft. However, he still felt as if he was in a daze.


• The crew noticed an “oily metallic” smell on the flight deck during an outbound flight from London Heathrow to Copenhagen. The same smell was noticed on the return flight. Towards the end of the flight, on approach to Heathrow, the crew missed numerous ATC calls, which prompted the controller to ask “if everything was all right”. In addition the Commander did not reduce aircraft speed to configure the aircraft for landing until reminded by the controller when the aircraft was at 3.7 nm DME (Distance Measuring Equipment). It was only after landing that the crew considered a possible link between the smell and their performance. When the smell was first detected, the crew had discussed the use of oxygen masks, but had concluded that there were no side effects to justify their use.

Subsequently, neither crewmember experienced any further symptoms or adverse effects.

• After parking on stand, both flight crewmembers experienced headaches and eye irritation.

• .….the Commander found it very difficult to concentrate on completing the fuel check and R/T tasks. He reported that his throat was dry, that his eyes felt irritated, that he had a headache and was generally aware that all was not well. The SCA reported that she also had a ‘very dry throat and eyes’ and the other crewmembers also had headaches.

• The Commander stated that, following the incident, he developed blisters inside his mouth, around his left inner cheek, on the roof of his mouth and left lower rear gum. He also had a tight chest, sore throat and suffered from coughing. The source of fumes was subsequently traced to No 3 engine, which was replaced on the following day.

• ……when fumes entered the flight deck and reportedly caused ‘dizziness and irritation to eyes’

However the problem recurred on 22 February 2001 when an oily smell was reported to have persisted on the flight deck for the duration of the flight, causing nose, and increasing throat irritation in both pilots.


• In addition to headaches, both pilots suffered from irritation to their mouths and nasal passages. An oily film was subsequently wiped off the flight deck CRT displays and passed to the operating Company’s engineering department for analysis.


• Both flight crew were left with a metallic taste in the mouth; the Commander also experienced a tingling sensation on his lips and a sore throat for several days. The First Officer was left with minor eye irritation.

• During the climb the Commander noticed a metallic taste coupled with an increasingly strong smell. The commander began to feel light headed and “un-coordinated”. The effects were still evident after landing with some reported errors of judgement and garbled speech.

• During the turnaround, the Commander alighted the aircraft in order to breathe fresh air but, after a short time, he suffered a head ache, itchy eyes, nausea and a bad taste in his mouth. The same crew then prepared the aircraft for return sector but, when engines number 3 and 4 were started, the Commander and the cabin staff felt increasingly unwell and as a result, the flight was cancelled. The aircraft was inspected in accordance with Service Bulletin ISB 21 – 150 but this did not reveal any oil contamination. However, following an air test it was found that engine No 4 and the APU were both the source of the fumes.

• The fumes reportedly affected two cabin staff and several passengers.

• The cabin manager felt overwhelmed by these fumes, and was on the verge of passing out, when her colleagues became aware of the situation and administered oxygen to her. After 10 minutes, the cabin manager recovered but was unable to resume her normal duties. Subsequent blood tests revealed that she had been exposed to higher than normal levels of carbon monoxide. (CO).

• The crew began to feel nauseous and so donned their oxygen masks, declared a PAN and returned to Heathrow where an uneventful landing was made.

• Then he started to feel dizzy and so donned his oxygen mask.

• The co pilot was limited in his capability of acting during the approach and landing due to the effects of fumes.

The medical examination of the co pilot after the flight showed that during the flight toxic exposure took place.

The medical examination of the Commander after flight did not show any results.

• They described it as a ‘burnt’ or ‘exhaust’ smell, but it was not accompanied by any visible smoke. Soon after, both crew members began to experience symptoms of tunnel vision, loss of balance and loss of feeling in the hands and lower arms. They immediately donned their oxygen masks, breathing 100% oxygen, which improved their condition noticeably.

• After a normal departure, and during the climb, the co pilot noticed a smell described as being similar to that of a central heating boiler. The commander, when asked by the co pilot, did not discern the odour.

Subsequently, the c o pilot complained of a dry throat and burning eyes. Control was handed over to the commander, shortly after which the co pilot experienced a tingling sensation in his fingers as well as complaining of being hot and sweating. The co pilot was placed on oxygen and the commander elected to return to Belfast. The co pilot slid his seat back and took no further part in the flight. The oxygen did not appear to be helping in the relief of the co pilot’s symptoms, although he remained conscious.

After an uneventful descent, approach and landing at Belfast, the co pilot was given first aid and began to recover. He was taken to hospital for further checks, including the taking of blood samples for later tests. Throughout the flight the commander did not suffer any ill effects and did not notice any smoke, fumes or odour.

Filter bleed air. It is NOT rocket science!

DB :{

People are dying from this stuff.

I remember 5 years ago or something, on the ABC there was a documentary or something, and they were discussing the toxic fumes in the aircraft etc, If I recall correctly the main aircraft that seemed to have the most problems with these cabin fumes was the BAE146 and Ansett used to have issues with the smoke....


Not sure if I'm recalling all this 100% accuratly, but did anyone else see/ remember something along those lines?

Panorama (BBC) recently aired a report on this as well, also involving the BAE146.
GUBA - Panorama - Something In The Air

Yes, that's correct. There had been a long series of reports/complaints by Cabin Crew about contaminated air in the 146s. I don't think anything was ever resolved. At that time I was regular pax between Perth and Tom Price in the 146. I really liked them, very comfortable.

Organophosphates are particularly dangerous and action needs to be taken to deal with the engine oil systems or filter bleed air effectively on those aircraft at risk. The effects of ingestion of these toxins has in the past caused legislation to protect farmers from sheep dips and the use of these toxins in nerve agents is hardly reassuring to airline crews.

I was fortunate throughout my flying career to fly types where oxygen use was mandatory for the duration of flight although airmix settings allowed one to whiff the fumes occasionally. I would want to use oxygen if I flew an at risk aircraft regularly.

Unfortunately, the elimination of risk is going to cost a fortune - watch the bean counters try to bury this issue.