Airbus crash/training flight
Join Date: May 2006
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What about manual gear extension!
During these Acceptance/Hand Over Flights often a demonstration of "manual gear" extension is performed.
This may have been started?
What is the procedure on the A320 to perform this?
Any related issues that could have resulted from this?
This may have been started?
What is the procedure on the A320 to perform this?
Any related issues that could have resulted from this?
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below MDA, very valid and timely post. In fact some accident CVR transcripts I've read have the "human frailty" dialogue officially removed, as irrelevant...I hope this becomes the case for this accident.
Full agreed. The release of such information to the public, by a head of investigation himself, is totally unprofessional and the French BEA deserves even more mistrust.
it's one thing to release an actual recording for subjective interpretation by the public and quite another to release decoded spoken words.
For sounds other than words the CVR team typically paraphrases these into descriptions appropriate to the investigation in the language of the lead investigator You typically do not leave unstated a blank area in a recording unless it actually has no data.
What words that you use to describe an area in a recording that has sounds other than spoken words is the provence of the langauge of the decoding expert since you have to put something down on paper factually.
I'm not sure if it is the translated word "scream" that bothers you or that you would have preferred some other factoid in its place.
lomapaseo:
Quoted in the NZ Herald
Perpignan state prosecutor Jean-Pierre Dreno said the pilots "were having a lot of difficulty controlling the plane", and that in their last seconds "they were screaming" as they hit the water.
Firstly I don't think anything of this nature (the CVR) should be released to the public as it serves no constructive purpose. Maybe others can see a good reason for it to be out in the public but I can't.
Once the investigation is complete, then I accept that portions of the transcript will make it into the public arena, however this current snippet is just crass.
Quoted in the NZ Herald
Perpignan state prosecutor Jean-Pierre Dreno said the pilots "were having a lot of difficulty controlling the plane", and that in their last seconds "they were screaming" as they hit the water.
Firstly I don't think anything of this nature (the CVR) should be released to the public as it serves no constructive purpose. Maybe others can see a good reason for it to be out in the public but I can't.
Once the investigation is complete, then I accept that portions of the transcript will make it into the public arena, however this current snippet is just crass.
The release of such information to the public, by a head of investigation himself, is totally unprofessional and the French BEA deserves even more mistrust.
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It said during painting and maintenance it was important to protect all aerodynamic data sensors.
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Perhaps this might help?
Air New Zealand says a safety alert distributed by aircraft manufacturer Airbus may indicate part of the reason behind the airline's fatal crash off the coast of France.
Five New Zealanders and two Germans were killed when an Air New Zealand-owned Airbus A320 crashed into the sea near Perpignan on 27 November.
It had been leased to a German airline and was being tested before being returned to Air New Zealand.
On Thursday, Airbus sent a notice to airlines reminding them of the importance of flight check requirements and maintenance, in particular to be careful of data sensors when painting aircraft.
Data sensors give pilots key information to enable them to fly the plane.
Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe says from the information in the safety alert, it may be that the investigators think the plane's data sensors were not working properly.
However, he says as the crash investigation has not been completed, the safety message should not be regarded as a definite finding.
The Air New Zealand plane had just been repainted in the company's livery when the crash happened. That work was completed by the German company which leased the plane.
Aviation commentator Peter Clark says the air safety notice may mean the plane's data sensors were somehow damaged or covered when it was being repainted.
Mr Clark says Airbus does not want the notice to be taken as a pre-judgement, but the infomation comes from the preliminary work completed by investitgators looking specifically at the Air New Zealand crash.
Recommendations followed - Air NZ boss
Mr Fyfe says Air New Zealand already follows the safety recommendations.
He says it is important that Airbus issues the notification, but it should not be taken as a pre-judgement of the official crash investigation.
He says any speculation would be premature and remains pleased with the performance of Air New Zealand's fleet of Airbus aircraft.
Air New Zealand is to send specialist staff to France this weekend as investigations continue into the crash. The visit is at the invitation of the French investigating body, the BEA.
Personnel from the New Zealand Transport Accident Investigation Commission will also take part.
A preliminary report into the crash is expected by the end of January.
Copyright © 2009 Radio New Zealand
Five New Zealanders and two Germans were killed when an Air New Zealand-owned Airbus A320 crashed into the sea near Perpignan on 27 November.
It had been leased to a German airline and was being tested before being returned to Air New Zealand.
On Thursday, Airbus sent a notice to airlines reminding them of the importance of flight check requirements and maintenance, in particular to be careful of data sensors when painting aircraft.
Data sensors give pilots key information to enable them to fly the plane.
Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe says from the information in the safety alert, it may be that the investigators think the plane's data sensors were not working properly.
However, he says as the crash investigation has not been completed, the safety message should not be regarded as a definite finding.
The Air New Zealand plane had just been repainted in the company's livery when the crash happened. That work was completed by the German company which leased the plane.
Aviation commentator Peter Clark says the air safety notice may mean the plane's data sensors were somehow damaged or covered when it was being repainted.
Mr Clark says Airbus does not want the notice to be taken as a pre-judgement, but the infomation comes from the preliminary work completed by investitgators looking specifically at the Air New Zealand crash.
Recommendations followed - Air NZ boss
Mr Fyfe says Air New Zealand already follows the safety recommendations.
He says it is important that Airbus issues the notification, but it should not be taken as a pre-judgement of the official crash investigation.
He says any speculation would be premature and remains pleased with the performance of Air New Zealand's fleet of Airbus aircraft.
Air New Zealand is to send specialist staff to France this weekend as investigations continue into the crash. The visit is at the invitation of the French investigating body, the BEA.
Personnel from the New Zealand Transport Accident Investigation Commission will also take part.
A preliminary report into the crash is expected by the end of January.
Copyright © 2009 Radio New Zealand
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Whatever the cause of this accident and I hope they find out and the findings are published soon, will not alter this fact. "One of the most dangerous aircraft you can fly, is one straight out of maintenance".
This is not a dig at engineers as we as pilots are not infallible either.
This is not a dig at engineers as we as pilots are not infallible either.
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Strangely enough I proposed the tape over static port scenario in post 109 (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...ml#post4561998)
What happens is the sea level pressure bleeds out in climb, and then the statis pressure stays low giving an artificially high indicated airspeed when the aircraft descends. The delta pressure across the tape seals the 'low pressure' in. Airbus aircraft do not have pitot-static probes, they have pitot probes with separate static ports on the fuselage.
If the MRO uses aluminium speed tape to cover the static ports, it is easy to miss as it is the same colour and appearance. Hence reputable MROs use bright orange covers with a streamer.
What happens is the sea level pressure bleeds out in climb, and then the statis pressure stays low giving an artificially high indicated airspeed when the aircraft descends. The delta pressure across the tape seals the 'low pressure' in. Airbus aircraft do not have pitot-static probes, they have pitot probes with separate static ports on the fuselage.
If the MRO uses aluminium speed tape to cover the static ports, it is easy to miss as it is the same colour and appearance. Hence reputable MROs use bright orange covers with a streamer.
Indeed looks more and more like some sort of problem post maintenance relating to sensors.
That being said is the WaterBus(tm) so hard to fly and land during daylight in direct law so that you end up crashing ? I have numerously advocated for a big red "kill all automation, let me fly this" button and I have been told that it was indeed available... still somewhat puzzled by what happened here.
That being said is the WaterBus(tm) so hard to fly and land during daylight in direct law so that you end up crashing ? I have numerously advocated for a big red "kill all automation, let me fly this" button and I have been told that it was indeed available... still somewhat puzzled by what happened here.
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atakacs
If you were not "still somewhat puzzled by what happened here" you'd be a genius, since you are presumably not an accident investigator and have no access to the recorded data.
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I wonder why Air New Zealand do not mention this?
Check flights must be performed in compliance with flight order within the Certified Flight Envelope. In particular tests such as low speed test must be performed at safe altitude and be preceded by a recall of basic rules as regards to minimum speeds and recovery actions.
Check flights must be performed in compliance with flight order within the Certified Flight Envelope. In particular tests such as low speed test must be performed at safe altitude and be preceded by a recall of basic rules as regards to minimum speeds and recovery actions.
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Mmm! the a/c had been airborne for rather a long time, surely taped up statics etc., would have been apparent a lot earlier. The 757 crash off the S.A coast knew their was a problem almost immediately.
Lets wait for the interim report. and get some facts.
Lets wait for the interim report. and get some facts.
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Configuration change?
If speed brakes (extension/arming), slats/flaps, or gear were commanded or extended either alternately or normally - does this change any auto-pilot, stall, FADEC logic and perhaps use sensor inputs that may have not been noticed or required until that point in the test flight - thus a sudden change in flight characteristics/inputs that the crew did not expect nor have a chance to react to timely?
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As someone with command time on he A320 as well as having done the A320 maintenance course I have to say that even with the help of 26 pages of PPrune wisdom I would not like to speculate on the cause of this accident.
So I will wait for the offical report before making comment
So I will wait for the offical report before making comment