Airbus crash/training flight
Just a thought!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 420
Likes: 3
From: In the Old Folks' Home
Elevator Authority
It's hard to understand why there would insufficient elevator authority to counter pitching moments caused by a power increase/decrease.
In any case we still need to know which came first, the pitch up or the power increase. Until we do, we cannot speculate further on the cause.
In any case we still need to know which came first, the pitch up or the power increase. Until we do, we cannot speculate further on the cause.
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: UK
Unless the aircraft was already being flown in direct law there's no reason the FBW shouldn't have coped with any rapid increase in thrust. In normal operation it's quite feasible to apply TOGA thrust rapidly and have the aircraft continue down the ILS path unperturbed. Were the aircraft deliberately placed in direct law then the actions taken would most probably have been verbalised and recorded on the CVR, along with the associated ECAM warning chimes. Even if the aircraft ended up in the unusual attitude variation of normal law the crew should still have had full control authority to move the surfaces, even if they had insufficient airspeed to execute a manouevre. The comparisons with the well documented A300/A310 stall events don't tell us anything about this mystifying incident.
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Strategic hamlet
I'm surprised that no one here suggested faulty maintenance in Perpignan may have caused the crash, I remembered a few years ago LH Technik screwed up and reversed the roll channel of the captain's sidestick, and the copilot had to take over.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 556
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From: Germany
Originally Posted by Scissorlink
The most common words said in an Airbus cockpit
"Whats it doing now????"
"Whats it doing now????"
I've never heard of the side-stick-driven FBW system unique to airbus to be a cause for confusion.
Bernd
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 575
Likes: 7
This point may well have been made earlier & I have never operated any type of Airbus aircraft, so apologies here.
However as I understand, it is being fairly strongly sugested in some quarters, that in this incident there was a sudden & very excessive pitch up. Was this not exactly what happened a few months ago to the Airbus over North West Australia? Not making any point at all, but might this be food for thought?
Nice to see that the Crew Members who were recovered, have been released & will shortly return home for the last time. I do hope also, that at some stage in the near future, the final two Crew presently unaccounted for, will also be able to make the same journey. RIP
However as I understand, it is being fairly strongly sugested in some quarters, that in this incident there was a sudden & very excessive pitch up. Was this not exactly what happened a few months ago to the Airbus over North West Australia? Not making any point at all, but might this be food for thought?
Nice to see that the Crew Members who were recovered, have been released & will shortly return home for the last time. I do hope also, that at some stage in the near future, the final two Crew presently unaccounted for, will also be able to make the same journey. RIP
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Choroni, sometimes
Mode confusion is indeed one of the most common problems in human/machine-interaction in modern glass-cockpit airliners, but it is common to all types and manufacturers.
Can you imagine the speed tape (VLS) is going down instead of up if you bank the aircraft (known software-bug on A300) or the FMS guided Autothrust pulls suddenly the speed back in cruise flight to achieve Vapp, but stops at green dot (protection), nobody knows why.....
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2
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From: Auckland
seamless...right... I've had 747-400's go-around on more than one ocassion on short final because of auto-pilot issues.. I'm not anti Airbus.
I do have hold some scepticism on the human v computer handshake thing..
I do have hold some scepticism on the human v computer handshake thing..
ZbV
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 799
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From: Samsonite
I've flown the 727, 737, 747 and 767. Some 4 months ago I converted to the narrowbody Airbus fleet. I am a convert in more ways than one. The A318, A319, A320, A321 are excellent aircraft. Much misunderstood by those that do not have training on these or have not flown them. I had a lot of prejudice myself for the systems. But the training, both ground, simulator and FAM (Line Training) flights have alleviated most of my concerns. There are still a few things that I don't like such as the lack of tactile feedback from thrust levers as these don't move with thrust changes nor does the side stick when the other pilot makes inputs.
The aircraft requires a different type of scan from "Conventional" aircraft with FMA (Flight Mode Annunciation) being extrmely important and not reading it after selections on the FCU (Boeing MCP) is a sure way to get into trouble. Another way to get into problems is to forget to think and rely solely on the FMCG (FMS) functions for descent calculations as well as optimum altitudes. I still think to myself and wont stop doing it. The aircraft systems are as good as the info they are provided. Remember BS in BS out.
Other than that the aircraft is a delight to hand fly and performs exceedingly well.
I am yet to ask the question "Whats it doing now" but I am sure it will come
I was told that someone telling me that they know Airbus in and out are either mad or lie or both. There is no doubt about the aircraft providing tons of information. It is up to the pilot to disseminate it.
The aircraft requires a different type of scan from "Conventional" aircraft with FMA (Flight Mode Annunciation) being extrmely important and not reading it after selections on the FCU (Boeing MCP) is a sure way to get into trouble. Another way to get into problems is to forget to think and rely solely on the FMCG (FMS) functions for descent calculations as well as optimum altitudes. I still think to myself and wont stop doing it. The aircraft systems are as good as the info they are provided. Remember BS in BS out.
Other than that the aircraft is a delight to hand fly and performs exceedingly well.
I am yet to ask the question "Whats it doing now" but I am sure it will come
I was told that someone telling me that they know Airbus in and out are either mad or lie or both. There is no doubt about the aircraft providing tons of information. It is up to the pilot to disseminate it.