Coffin Corner
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
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From: UK
No it won't! The definition of CC is that ANY increase or decrease in speed will result in loss of control, so basically you are Gordon Ramsey'd as we say on UK TV.
Sentence 1 rules.
Sentence 1 rules.
Last edited by BOAC; 22nd June 2008 at 17:06.
Thanks. Edited. I actually watch neither, so please may I be excused?
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 71
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From: USA
Actually, the term "coffin corner" refers to a very small window between mach buffet and stall, not loss of control. And it is possible to maintain a given airspeed while descending, is it not? This is a very high altitude phenomenon, so you'd likely be at a pretty high power setting and all you have to do is reduce throttle. In fact not many aircraft have enough motor to get themselves into this situation to begin with.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well
Reduce power and.... Stall. No increase left, at max altitude, can't climb, At Vne can't descend, you going to do uh What?? Including the word Coffin is not a mistake.
rubik: more power than wing has killed many an inattentive pilot.
Airfoil
rubik: more power than wing has killed many an inattentive pilot.
Airfoil
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
Likes: 4
From: UK
I believe the actual 'coffin corner' was a one-way street, that real control loss was supposed to happen there with ANY change in Mach or IAS. It would require consumate skill to 'lower the nose' and fly out of it without increasing Mach no or reducing IAS. I suspect it was more a notional 'media' thing rather than a real one, but I'm sure someone will know better.
Ironically, for 'rubik', "Lots more power might help." - it was the converse. Too little power stopped people from getting up there as Lear pilots have discovered the hard way.
Ironically, for 'rubik', "Lots more power might help." - it was the converse. Too little power stopped people from getting up there as Lear pilots have discovered the hard way.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 81
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From: Room 757
Sounds hard to reach such a critical Coffin Corner situation where ANY changes involve a Stall or Overspeed? Seems very hard to even approach this situation without stalling or overspeeding beforehand. You will always have some margin which is the way you would get out.
If you somehow get to such a critical situation I think anybody would rather have an overspeed in the recovery process than a shaker.
rcl
If you somehow get to such a critical situation I think anybody would rather have an overspeed in the recovery process than a shaker.
rcl
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 1,615
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From: wherever
In a modern Airliner you can't get near "coffin corner" without busting MMO so we should coin a new term for the limiting alt where MMO and AoA stall coincide.
Any suggestions?
How about Certifications Wall?
Any suggestions?
How about Certifications Wall?
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
Likes: 4
From: UK
redout - if you look at the bottom of the page you will see several threads about CC. Our friend John Farley posts (at #14) in one of them a good description of the situation.
Looks like your original question is best asked of a U2 pilot.
Looks like your original question is best asked of a U2 pilot.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 298
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From: NZWN New Zealand
Reduce power and.... Stall. No increase left, at max altitude, can't climb, At Vne can't descend, you going to do uh What?? Including the word Coffin is not a mistake. rubik: more power than wing has killed many an inattentive pilot.
Just don't apply for a job as a carrier pilot if you don't understand that sink can be controlled EITHER by attitude or power. You add new lustre to the term plain driver ... sorry I meant plane driver.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 423
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From: Malvern, UK
The Chuck Yeager Approach
To recover from CC.Tumble in an uncontrolled manner out of the sky until you hit thicker air. Ultimately you will recognise the uncontrolled state has now entered a recognisable aerobatic state (spin or inverted spin). Apply standard recovey technique. Simple.
