No towing from stand to take off - yet.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: France
Posts: 2,315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAXboy
"...doing things that they like doing and that make money!..."
Exactly. Cashing in on the global warming scam makes lots of money, for all the right people. Not for you and me, though.
There ARE a lot of environmental issues, that DO need dealing with.
The so-called "global warming" is not one of them.
CJ
"...doing things that they like doing and that make money!..."
Exactly. Cashing in on the global warming scam makes lots of money, for all the right people. Not for you and me, though.
There ARE a lot of environmental issues, that DO need dealing with.
The so-called "global warming" is not one of them.
CJ
Last edited by ChristiaanJ; 14th Mar 2008 at 21:46. Reason: typo
Sims Fly Virtually
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Used to be 3rd Sand Dune from the Left - But now I'm somewhere else somewhere else.
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Aviation Pollution"
I fly (long haul) for my holidays - Because I live and work a long way from my home. We live in a "global world" and my excuse for my work-place is that I'm "spreading modern technology" (okay - and making money at it
)
In "the good old days", I'd be taking a holiday every 3 years, and spending a couple of weeks traveling on a ship (at a smaller "carbon footprint"? Probably not) Don't think my wife-come-August would be happy with that suggestion!
So the answer is to tax air travel out of existence? (whether either per-pax or per-flight) Never mind RB's "spin" being green - how about the robbing bar-stewards in our elected governments?
Anything that can allow me to spend time at home, or my wife to spend time with me at our "other home" (constraints with children at school) and yet contribute less to the environmental damage so caused, is worthy of consideration. Otherwise, I'll have to stop contributing to what's known as "UK's Invisible Earnings"
Anything that works economically is worth a shot at. If it works it will make money - if it doesn't it will die a death. But progress has always been from someone willing to try out an idea.
I fly (long haul) for my holidays - Because I live and work a long way from my home. We live in a "global world" and my excuse for my work-place is that I'm "spreading modern technology" (okay - and making money at it
)In "the good old days", I'd be taking a holiday every 3 years, and spending a couple of weeks traveling on a ship (at a smaller "carbon footprint"? Probably not) Don't think my wife-come-August would be happy with that suggestion!
So the answer is to tax air travel out of existence? (whether either per-pax or per-flight) Never mind RB's "spin" being green - how about the robbing bar-stewards in our elected governments?
Anything that can allow me to spend time at home, or my wife to spend time with me at our "other home" (constraints with children at school) and yet contribute less to the environmental damage so caused, is worthy of consideration. Otherwise, I'll have to stop contributing to what's known as "UK's Invisible Earnings"
Anything that works economically is worth a shot at. If it works it will make money - if it doesn't it will die a death. But progress has always been from someone willing to try out an idea.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: France
Posts: 2,315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ExSimGuy
....yet contribute less to the environmental damage so caused....
Your "environmental damage" is totally invisible, and even unlikely.
The CO2 fiction is being discredited more and more.
So is the "global warming" fiction.
If anything, your flight may do some good, because high-level persisting jet contrails add a small amount to the earth cloud cover, keeping down the temperature variations.
Go and see your wife. Human relations far outweigh the "Save the Planet" fictions.
Cheers,
Christian
Paxing All Over The World
Actually, I think that Climate Change is real and that air travel is contributing to it and possibly even to a significant level.
I also read with interest that ships are particularly dirty and no one has tried any serious attack on them just yet ...
As I say, mankind WILL trash the planet. It makes zero difference whether we do so in 5/55/5000 years, we will ruin this planet and billions will die. I have no concern whether it happens in my life time or not because it cannot be stopped. The very idea that countries/companies can work for the greater good is laughable! The politicians have no choice but to sound concerned but they know that nothing can change the behaviour of a species that has been so successful at dominating the planet. So - business as usual.
I also read with interest that ships are particularly dirty and no one has tried any serious attack on them just yet ...
As I say, mankind WILL trash the planet. It makes zero difference whether we do so in 5/55/5000 years, we will ruin this planet and billions will die. I have no concern whether it happens in my life time or not because it cannot be stopped. The very idea that countries/companies can work for the greater good is laughable! The politicians have no choice but to sound concerned but they know that nothing can change the behaviour of a species that has been so successful at dominating the planet. So - business as usual.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The planet will not be trashed. It doesn't give a to55. What might very well happen is that we will make it inhospitable to humans and the human race will die out.
The planet won't care about that or about who takes our place. Or who takes their place either, when that time comes.
We humans are pretty insignificant in the great scheme of things.
SSD
The planet won't care about that or about who takes our place. Or who takes their place either, when that time comes.
We humans are pretty insignificant in the great scheme of things.
SSD
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As we are accustomed to with Branson - this just smacks of PR and nothing else.
This is someone who wants to 'save the world' environmentally - and then send the public a handful at a time into space, releasiing tonnes of potentially very toxic rocket fuels.
Having a second home 4,500 miles away doesn't really make you look a passionate environmentalist either
Really doesn't wash !
This is someone who wants to 'save the world' environmentally - and then send the public a handful at a time into space, releasiing tonnes of potentially very toxic rocket fuels.
Having a second home 4,500 miles away doesn't really make you look a passionate environmentalist either
Really doesn't wash !
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bridgnorth UK
Age: 54
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Global Dimming
ChristiaanJ talks about:
If anything, your flight may do some good, because high-level persisting jet contrails add a small amount to the earth cloud cover, keeping down the temperature variations.
This is called "Global Dimming" and the proof of it happened when there was no air travel in the US for several days in September 2001. Temperatures rose and it was attributed to this phenomenen. It must be true because it was on "Horizon", who also predicted the Asian tsunami!
Lets keep flying!
If anything, your flight may do some good, because high-level persisting jet contrails add a small amount to the earth cloud cover, keeping down the temperature variations.
This is called "Global Dimming" and the proof of it happened when there was no air travel in the US for several days in September 2001. Temperatures rose and it was attributed to this phenomenen. It must be true because it was on "Horizon", who also predicted the Asian tsunami!
Lets keep flying!
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The most important motivation of Richard Branson to develop biofuels is not the environment, but the peak in oil production which will probably happen before 2015 (according to Shell). After peak oil the growth of aviation will be limited by the availability of energy, but more likely by the oil price explosion if the difference in demand and supply start to grow.
Agree that biofuels are a very dubious 'alternative', but I admire anyone who is trying to do something constructive (and risk $400 m of investment).
For the interested, a study from the ASPO about the relation peak oil-aviation (27 pages, pdf):
http://www.aspousa.org/proceedings/h...s_10-19-07.pdf
Agree that biofuels are a very dubious 'alternative', but I admire anyone who is trying to do something constructive (and risk $400 m of investment).
For the interested, a study from the ASPO about the relation peak oil-aviation (27 pages, pdf):
http://www.aspousa.org/proceedings/h...s_10-19-07.pdf
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: where the money is
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To AVRFLR:
P.S. Man-made climate change is a scam! Don't believe the lies! Make the world a better place: kick an environmentalist.
Do you really think that this is going to help? It reminds me of some silly redneck saying in Germany of the 80s: 'Nuclear power? I dont't care. My electricity comes out the plug in the wall...'
I'm not saying that Sir Richard B. is right. But advocating sensitivity in environmental issues might give us a head-start before some silly and over-active populist politicians force us to implement things we all certainly do not want.
Do you really think that this is going to help? It reminds me of some silly redneck saying in Germany of the 80s: 'Nuclear power? I dont't care. My electricity comes out the plug in the wall...'
I'm not saying that Sir Richard B. is right. But advocating sensitivity in environmental issues might give us a head-start before some silly and over-active populist politicians force us to implement things we all certainly do not want.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Sussex
Age: 67
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The climate and Bio fuels
I think this may be an appropriate moment for my first post. I’m not a pilot or aviation engineer but I am an engineer with long experience in diesel engines until recently when I switched to computing. I have had a lifelong interest in aviation so feel “qualified to contribute”
Firstly, the whole Climate Change, Global Warming, Carbon footprint scenario we are being sold is nonsense, and I speak from one who has read a vast amount of the scientific evidence. The whole thing is a political movement to get us to focus on the environment but they have chosen the wrong gas, the wrong bogie man if you like. However it is one that even those with a cursory education recognise and partially understand (ie most politicians and many environmentalists but not all)
CO2 is not a pollutant and nor is it a very important greenhouse gas. And given that, man made contributions to the total CO2 output each year is minuscule compared to natural outputs. In fact CO2 is essential to our well being and to food production on our planet and without which we would all perish. The higher the concentrations the faster plants grow. And by the way despite the fancy graphs from the IPCC and our good friend Al, CO2 concentrations were higher in the early 1800’s and around 1930. New evidence shows that the concentration fluctuates quite a lot with the reasons for this not fully understood, but one thing is certain, it has not been cause by us burning fossil fuels.
All this brings into question the grandstanding of organisations such as Virgin, who could be a little more honest and say they are looking for ways of saving fuel to help their costs, improve their profits and at the same time reduce the real pollutants such as Nitrous Oxides, un-burnt Hydrocarbons and Particulate matter, all of which have been forgotten in our quest to reduce the life giving gas CO2.
We have server risks out there over the future of our fuel supplies (Middle East and Russia not to mention growing demand from China and India) and by implication our current standards of living. We should be pushing harder to save fuel and pushing for our engines to build cleaner burning and even more fuel efficient engines. In my experience if the engineer today says that’s impossible, tomorrow he will be crowing, look what I have achieved. Trying to save CO2 sets everyone on a hiding to nothing.
The worst thing we can do is use bio fuels. I know from my Diesel experience that an engine designed for diesel will produce higher levels of the real pollutants on bio fuel. Also maintenance costs rise. Then there is the disastrous effect it is already having in the poorer parts of the word where even more forest is being cut down to grown Palm oil trees and much high quality agricultural land in the west is being used for Bio fuel production as the farmers look to improve returns, so that we in the West source even more from the third world who in turn cut down more forest to supply us. This is in addition to the completely bizarre fact that, producing this fuel, costs us as much in energy as it subsequently returns. No joined up thinking going on here is there?
Lastly for those who enjoy a good scientific sleep inducing read and regularly suffer from insomnia here are some links to some kind sole that have been collating the real science for us.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
http://nzclimatescience.net/index.php
http://www.climatescienceinternational.org/
Firstly, the whole Climate Change, Global Warming, Carbon footprint scenario we are being sold is nonsense, and I speak from one who has read a vast amount of the scientific evidence. The whole thing is a political movement to get us to focus on the environment but they have chosen the wrong gas, the wrong bogie man if you like. However it is one that even those with a cursory education recognise and partially understand (ie most politicians and many environmentalists but not all)
CO2 is not a pollutant and nor is it a very important greenhouse gas. And given that, man made contributions to the total CO2 output each year is minuscule compared to natural outputs. In fact CO2 is essential to our well being and to food production on our planet and without which we would all perish. The higher the concentrations the faster plants grow. And by the way despite the fancy graphs from the IPCC and our good friend Al, CO2 concentrations were higher in the early 1800’s and around 1930. New evidence shows that the concentration fluctuates quite a lot with the reasons for this not fully understood, but one thing is certain, it has not been cause by us burning fossil fuels.
All this brings into question the grandstanding of organisations such as Virgin, who could be a little more honest and say they are looking for ways of saving fuel to help their costs, improve their profits and at the same time reduce the real pollutants such as Nitrous Oxides, un-burnt Hydrocarbons and Particulate matter, all of which have been forgotten in our quest to reduce the life giving gas CO2.
We have server risks out there over the future of our fuel supplies (Middle East and Russia not to mention growing demand from China and India) and by implication our current standards of living. We should be pushing harder to save fuel and pushing for our engines to build cleaner burning and even more fuel efficient engines. In my experience if the engineer today says that’s impossible, tomorrow he will be crowing, look what I have achieved.
Trying to save CO2 sets everyone on a hiding to nothing.The worst thing we can do is use bio fuels. I know from my Diesel experience that an engine designed for diesel will produce higher levels of the real pollutants on bio fuel. Also maintenance costs rise. Then there is the disastrous effect it is already having in the poorer parts of the word where even more forest is being cut down to grown Palm oil trees and much high quality agricultural land in the west is being used for Bio fuel production as the farmers look to improve returns, so that we in the West source even more from the third world who in turn cut down more forest to supply us. This is in addition to the completely bizarre fact that, producing this fuel, costs us as much in energy as it subsequently returns. No joined up thinking going on here is there?
Lastly for those who enjoy a good scientific sleep inducing read and regularly suffer from insomnia here are some links to some kind sole that have been collating the real science for us.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
http://nzclimatescience.net/index.php
http://www.climatescienceinternational.org/
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tween Hurn&Filton
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The whole 'Global warming' debate is most vexacious and controversial. It has just as many sceptics as it has converts. IMHO it remains a good idea for aviation and aviators to at least make some effort to try and curb our noise and emissions if only to show the 'environmentalists' that we are not totally irresponsible.
As has been alluded to in previous posts, the actual Co2 contribution made by aviation isbarely discernable compared to naturally occurring emissions from geothermal activity, plankton blooms, politicians etc. If Virgin Branson wish to investigate any options to be more environmentally sensitive, then more power to their elbows; and of course they will maximise any publicity they can glean.......that's good business!
What is a whole load more cynical and offensive is our government pretending to be 'green' while using the entire subject as another revenue generating exercise.
As has been alluded to in previous posts, the actual Co2 contribution made by aviation isbarely discernable compared to naturally occurring emissions from geothermal activity, plankton blooms, politicians etc. If Virgin Branson wish to investigate any options to be more environmentally sensitive, then more power to their elbows; and of course they will maximise any publicity they can glean.......that's good business!
What is a whole load more cynical and offensive is our government pretending to be 'green' while using the entire subject as another revenue generating exercise.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver,Canada
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Simply, Branson is an "entrepreneur" or how other rich people like to name themselves; "socialite" and we can go on and on putting a title to your name as "Sir" etc...
He is a business man first and Sir and environmentalist second. He has so much wealth and connections that he can made up an any full size page article in London times and you will buy it.
When you are in the position as he is you just have to pretend you care for the planet and the rest of us who live here, but in reality he doesn't give a jack....t about it.
Trying out a coconut derived biofuel was the biggest joke I have ever read and they actually got backed up by Shell,hahahaha....nuts.
We need to conquer few other planetsof the size of Earth to produce enough biofuel for all the airplanes flying daily around the globe...
And this thing about towing a fully loaded airplane to reduce emissions is all about publicity and has nothing to do with being "green".
It gives you some extra "free" time in the media and what is better that hearing all these stories about Virgin going green, but no one actualy does the count about it on the end of the day.
So be ready for more unbelieveable stories of Dr.Branson in the future...
He is a business man first and Sir and environmentalist second. He has so much wealth and connections that he can made up an any full size page article in London times and you will buy it.
When you are in the position as he is you just have to pretend you care for the planet and the rest of us who live here, but in reality he doesn't give a jack....t about it.
Trying out a coconut derived biofuel was the biggest joke I have ever read and they actually got backed up by Shell,hahahaha....nuts.
We need to conquer few other planets
of the size of Earth to produce enough biofuel for all the airplanes flying daily around the globe...And this thing about towing a fully loaded airplane to reduce emissions is all about publicity and has nothing to do with being "green".
It gives you some extra "free" time in the media and what is better that hearing all these stories about Virgin going green, but no one actualy does the count about it on the end of the day.
So be ready for more unbelieveable stories of Dr.Branson in the future...
