Communication failure after takeoff
Join Date: Jun 2005
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SIDs and STARs
In the historics of ATC, the SIDs Standard Instrument Departures were initially published as "loss of communication procedure" and, in practice, it was somewhat rare, particularly in the USA, to navigate a SID. Once ATC gives you a vector, they give you a new clearance, it cancels your SID clearance, unless they clear you back to the SID...
xxx
One thing I always did, was to program the "exit point" of the SID as the INS waypoint 9 (the last one on old C-IVs) as I expected departure to initially give us vectors/climbs then eventually "direct to" that point...
xxx
A few years later, came the STARs arrival routes... same story. So in all practicalities, SIDs and STARs were only flown in case of loss of communications. I remember often being cleared from JFK (when passing FL230) "direct to" HECTOR , the initial STAR entry for LAX arrival profile descent.
xxx
Then I noticed that Europeans got into the SIDs/STARs, and found it quite convenient to issue the full SID/STAR profile, less work for them. No vectors, no climbs or descents bla bla... just go as published, and let us sip our tea, don't bother us. London became notorious for that, with my PanAm soul, (and opinion)... soon followed by Frankfurt, them Paris and Amsterdam. Complicated zig-zags. So in Europe, they sit on their hands... In the USA, they still expediate with vectors.
xxx
Loss of communications if often NOT A LOSS of communications. It is ATCO that gives you an erroneous frequency change, or you, not copying the correct frequency to dial with your fat fingers twisting knobs. Thanks God for the A/B switch on your VHF COMM to get back to your previous frequency to say a "CONFIRM 123.4...?"... With the old radios, I recall "loss of comm" and unable to recall what the previous one was - and going on 121.5 with my tail between my hind legs to query "who to speak to now"...
xxx
Been there, done that... you guys will too.
Arf, has my dog says...
Happy contrails
xxx
One thing I always did, was to program the "exit point" of the SID as the INS waypoint 9 (the last one on old C-IVs) as I expected departure to initially give us vectors/climbs then eventually "direct to" that point...
xxx
A few years later, came the STARs arrival routes... same story. So in all practicalities, SIDs and STARs were only flown in case of loss of communications. I remember often being cleared from JFK (when passing FL230) "direct to" HECTOR , the initial STAR entry for LAX arrival profile descent.
xxx
Then I noticed that Europeans got into the SIDs/STARs, and found it quite convenient to issue the full SID/STAR profile, less work for them. No vectors, no climbs or descents bla bla... just go as published, and let us sip our tea, don't bother us. London became notorious for that, with my PanAm soul, (and opinion)... soon followed by Frankfurt, them Paris and Amsterdam. Complicated zig-zags. So in Europe, they sit on their hands... In the USA, they still expediate with vectors.
xxx
Loss of communications if often NOT A LOSS of communications. It is ATCO that gives you an erroneous frequency change, or you, not copying the correct frequency to dial with your fat fingers twisting knobs. Thanks God for the A/B switch on your VHF COMM to get back to your previous frequency to say a "CONFIRM 123.4...?"... With the old radios, I recall "loss of comm" and unable to recall what the previous one was - and going on 121.5 with my tail between my hind legs to query "who to speak to now"...
xxx
Been there, done that... you guys will too.
Arf, has my dog says...
Happy contrails
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Everything about communication failure is written there in the UK AIP :
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2011-04-07.pdf
Look for ENR 1.1.3 — GENERAL FLIGHT PROCEDURES
Paragraph 4.2 Radio Failure Procedures For Pilots
Here is an abstract of what they say :
(b) (i) Maintain, for a period of 7 minutes, the current speed and last assigned level or minimum safe altitude, if this higher.The period of seven minutes begins when the transponder is set to 7600 and this should be done as soon as the pilot has detected communications failure.
(ii) If failure occurs when the aircraft is following a notified departure procedure such as a Standard Instrument Departure (SID) and clearance to climb, or re-routing instructions have not been given, the procedure should be flown in accordance with the published lateral track and vertical profile, including any stepped climbs, until the last position, fix, or waypoint, published for the procedure, has been reached. Then, for that part of the period of 7 minutes that may remain, maintain the current speed and last assigned level or minimum safe altitude, if this higher.
(iii) Thereafter, adjust the speed and level in accordance with the current flight plan and continue the flight to the appropriate designated landing aid serving the destination aerodrome. Attempt to transmit position reports and altitude/flight level on the appropriate frequency when over routine reporting points.
(c) (i) If being radar vectored, or proceeding offset according to RNAV, without a specified limit, continue in accordance with ATC instructions last acknowledged for 3 minutes only and then proceed in the most direct manner possible to rejoin the current flight planned route. Pilots should ensure that they remain at, or above, the minimum safe altitude
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2011-04-07.pdf
Look for ENR 1.1.3 — GENERAL FLIGHT PROCEDURES
Paragraph 4.2 Radio Failure Procedures For Pilots
Here is an abstract of what they say :
(b) (i) Maintain, for a period of 7 minutes, the current speed and last assigned level or minimum safe altitude, if this higher.The period of seven minutes begins when the transponder is set to 7600 and this should be done as soon as the pilot has detected communications failure.
(ii) If failure occurs when the aircraft is following a notified departure procedure such as a Standard Instrument Departure (SID) and clearance to climb, or re-routing instructions have not been given, the procedure should be flown in accordance with the published lateral track and vertical profile, including any stepped climbs, until the last position, fix, or waypoint, published for the procedure, has been reached. Then, for that part of the period of 7 minutes that may remain, maintain the current speed and last assigned level or minimum safe altitude, if this higher.
(iii) Thereafter, adjust the speed and level in accordance with the current flight plan and continue the flight to the appropriate designated landing aid serving the destination aerodrome. Attempt to transmit position reports and altitude/flight level on the appropriate frequency when over routine reporting points.
(c) (i) If being radar vectored, or proceeding offset according to RNAV, without a specified limit, continue in accordance with ATC instructions last acknowledged for 3 minutes only and then proceed in the most direct manner possible to rejoin the current flight planned route. Pilots should ensure that they remain at, or above, the minimum safe altitude
Last edited by manucordier; 16th May 2011 at 14:10.
