Minimum Vertical Speed in a Holding Pattern ?
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Minimum Vertical Speed in a Holding Pattern ?
Hello there.. ! Maybe someone can help me find the minimum V/S for a JET in a holding Pattern... I have been looking everywhere... Jeppesen, Manuals, etc..
Thanks..
Thanks..
in London airspace I think they expect at least 500 fpm. I seem to remember reading once that holding traffic is not monitored in terms of rod.
Ready for any ATC chap/chappess to correct me if that's bull!
Ready for any ATC chap/chappess to correct me if that's bull!
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section 4-4-10/adherence to clearance USA AIM
When ATC has not used the term "AT PILOT'S DISCRETION" nor imposed any climb or descent restrictions, pilots should initiate climb or descent promptly on acknowledgement of the clearance. Descend or climb at an optimum rate consistent with the operating characteristics of the aircraft to 1,000 feet above or below the assigned altitude, and then attempt to descend or climb at a rate of between 500 and 1,500 fpm until the assigned altitude is reached. If at anytime the pilot is unable to climb or descend at a rate of at least 500 feet a minute, advise ATC. If it is necessary to level off at an intermediate altitude during climb or descent, advise ATC, except when leveling off at 10,000 feet MSL on descent, or 2,500 feet above airport elevation (prior to entering a Class C or Class D surface area), when required for speed reduction.
REFERENCE-
14 CFR Section 91.117.
Mind you, this is for any climb and descent and not for holding patterns alone...so what that means is this: unless you are told differently, the above is FOR ALL ALTITUDE CHANGES including a holding pattern.
It use to be that we climbed/descended as fast as we could until the last 1000' and then went to 500fpm but that changed quite awhile ago.
REFERENCE-
14 CFR Section 91.117.
Mind you, this is for any climb and descent and not for holding patterns alone...so what that means is this: unless you are told differently, the above is FOR ALL ALTITUDE CHANGES including a holding pattern.
It use to be that we climbed/descended as fast as we could until the last 1000' and then went to 500fpm but that changed quite awhile ago.
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You can not find it because there is none.
ICAO does not prescribe a minimum ROD. Nevertheless they do expect that you minimize your ROD/ROC to max 1000'/min the last 1000' to avoid TCAS TA's or even RA's.
If you want to know what the minimum descend rate in an terminal area is you should look in the AIP of the respective country if there is something writen about it. Just like in the UK AIP about London ACC.
In a descent I will always fly a minimum of 500'/min to keep a descent arrow on other aircraft's TCAS display. This I practice as well in a holding since there will be traffic 1000' below me.
So everybody who claims 1000' is the minimum ROD is wrong, unless it is written in the respective AIP.
ICAO does not prescribe a minimum ROD. Nevertheless they do expect that you minimize your ROD/ROC to max 1000'/min the last 1000' to avoid TCAS TA's or even RA's.
If you want to know what the minimum descend rate in an terminal area is you should look in the AIP of the respective country if there is something writen about it. Just like in the UK AIP about London ACC.
In a descent I will always fly a minimum of 500'/min to keep a descent arrow on other aircraft's TCAS display. This I practice as well in a holding since there will be traffic 1000' below me.
So everybody who claims 1000' is the minimum ROD is wrong, unless it is written in the respective AIP.
In the 70s the UK air pilot stated min 1000ft per min except for the last 1000ft unless exemption given by ATC.
Mode C wasn't available to all, was unreliable and consequently when stacked going into Heathrow we were expected to maintain min descent rates and often called "vacating Fl..."
In those days we could have an hour plus holding.
I've held over red fir south - then clacton b4 going into the ongar hold.
likewise over Ram Bullet a couple of times.
Boredom was filled with The Times crossword, some tasty hostesses and bull s***ting interesting first class passengers - all gone now.............
Lucky to see a clean hostess nowadays................
Mode C wasn't available to all, was unreliable and consequently when stacked going into Heathrow we were expected to maintain min descent rates and often called "vacating Fl..."
In those days we could have an hour plus holding.
I've held over red fir south - then clacton b4 going into the ongar hold.
likewise over Ram Bullet a couple of times.
Boredom was filled with The Times crossword, some tasty hostesses and bull s***ting interesting first class passengers - all gone now.............
Lucky to see a clean hostess nowadays................
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I remembered I read somewhere they expect at least 500 FPM... I think BBK is right and it was for London... ! I appreciate all the useful info ! 
Thank you all for replying !
Thank you all for replying !
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From the UK AIP:
2.4.1 In order to ensure that controllers can accurately predict flight profiles to maintain standard vertical separation between aircraft, pilots of aircraft commencing a climb or descent in accordance with an ATC Clearance should inform the controller if they anticipate that their rate of climb or descent during the level change will be less than 500 ft per minute, or if at any time during such a climb or descent their vertical speed is, in fact, less than 500 ft per minute.
2.4.2 This requirement applies to both the en-route phase of flight and to terminal holding above Transition Altitude.
2.4.1 In order to ensure that controllers can accurately predict flight profiles to maintain standard vertical separation between aircraft, pilots of aircraft commencing a climb or descent in accordance with an ATC Clearance should inform the controller if they anticipate that their rate of climb or descent during the level change will be less than 500 ft per minute, or if at any time during such a climb or descent their vertical speed is, in fact, less than 500 ft per minute.
2.4.2 This requirement applies to both the en-route phase of flight and to terminal holding above Transition Altitude.
