How is your performance?
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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How is your performance?
guys,
flying now for 2 years on line. had profchecks,changed the company, no problems at all.but sometimes i dont like my performance. its like i forget things. one week ago, we briefed a dep route (example: fulham 3b and we forgot to change the fms and the fms had still the fulham 3d in it) so I flew the wrong departure I was angry on myself like hell. have you made similar experieces as a young copilot? is it normal to forget little things ? when stops learning and when do i begin ruling?
i feel like
flying now for 2 years on line. had profchecks,changed the company, no problems at all.but sometimes i dont like my performance. its like i forget things. one week ago, we briefed a dep route (example: fulham 3b and we forgot to change the fms and the fms had still the fulham 3d in it) so I flew the wrong departure I was angry on myself like hell. have you made similar experieces as a young copilot? is it normal to forget little things ? when stops learning and when do i begin ruling?
i feel like
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Hey Olendirk
I've been flying commercially for almost 25 years and i still ocasionally forget little things...that's why we have checklists and safety pilots..that's the OTHER crewmember,whether a CPT or F/O, and i guess everybody out there could tell you the same..so don't worry..you're not the first nor would you be the last that feels that way.
you NEVER EVER stop learning...i tell you i never have...and i've been a pilot for 25 years
The minute you think that you have nothing more to learn is the time you need to stop flying because you became dangerous to yourself and to the people who fly with you..and you LEAD your crew and not RULE them becuse you are more experienced than the rest and more KNOWLEDGABLE than the rest(wich implies continuous learning)
I've been flying commercially for almost 25 years and i still ocasionally forget little things...that's why we have checklists and safety pilots..that's the OTHER crewmember,whether a CPT or F/O, and i guess everybody out there could tell you the same..so don't worry..you're not the first nor would you be the last that feels that way.
you NEVER EVER stop learning...i tell you i never have...and i've been a pilot for 25 years
The minute you think that you have nothing more to learn is the time you need to stop flying because you became dangerous to yourself and to the people who fly with you..and you LEAD your crew and not RULE them becuse you are more experienced than the rest and more KNOWLEDGABLE than the rest(wich implies continuous learning)
I have been flying for 36 years now and agree wholeheartedly that you never stop learning. If you ever get to that stage take the advise and find another job before you kill youself and, heaven forbid, otheres to.
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Well, this old fart has been flying for 42 years, and 26000 hours later, I managed to learn a few new things on a flight only a few hours ago!
If you think that you know it all, you're a dead man!
Perhaps the best "survival rule" that I could pass on is to always check all information for "reasonableness". Vital in this computer age (Garbage in, Garbage out = GIGO), perhaps even more so than in earlier times where human errors abounded, and we were constantly alert for them, maybe we trust the FMC a little too much?
Don't be hard on yourself, I've done far worse, and learn from it!
Happy flying (trust nobody, trust nothing)
Regards,
Old Smokey
If you think that you know it all, you're a dead man!
Perhaps the best "survival rule" that I could pass on is to always check all information for "reasonableness". Vital in this computer age (Garbage in, Garbage out = GIGO), perhaps even more so than in earlier times where human errors abounded, and we were constantly alert for them, maybe we trust the FMC a little too much?
Don't be hard on yourself, I've done far worse, and learn from it!
Happy flying (trust nobody, trust nothing)
Regards,
Old Smokey
You have been taught to blindly rely on the FMS inputs. Not a good thing. Where possible on SIDS and STARS and en-route too, it is wise to have a second or back-up view of your planned flight path by appropriate selection and monitoring of basic navigation aid readings. If installed in your aircraft, the RMI with its VOR and ADF needles and coupled with DME display, is an important situational awareness feature.
That is if you know how to use it quickly.
That is if you know how to use it quickly.
As a champion of error, I agree with the previous replies.
Olendirk ‘… stop learning and when do i begin ruling?”
You never stop learning, but you already have the capability of ruling – ruling yourself to begin with. The foundation of airmanship is discipline, which includes the ability to discipline your thoughts as well as behaviour (thoughts precede action).
By directing attention to specific tasks we are able to reduce error – simple mistakes. Time is a critical issue, when to direct your attention and what to direct it too. Rehearsal of expected events may help – your own self briefing. Create a mental picture of the flight (the departure), identify points of action; these should be tied to other actions, specific events or points i.e. after checklist complete think about …. when passing xxxx ft prepare (check) FMS… etc. These activities can be practiced before flight – write events down, learn from those which were not as good you expected (the power of debriefing – self debrief). In time, quite quickly, these items (personal SOPs) will be remembered.
Memories are stronger if they are made in relation to an event or a situation – it’s why some bad things linger on; learn from them by understanding where the error came from and then move on – recall the good events where things go right – then there will be more good times to enjoy during your flying – that’s ruling.
You don’t like your performance? That a good attitude; you should always aim to improve your performance. Your flying will be more interesting as there will be something new to enjoy every day.
Errors … if you don’t make them, you don’t have the opportunity to learn, learning should be an enjoyment. But learning from error requires effort (proficiency and skill in thought and action - the second aspect of airmanship); – you have taken the first and most important step by acknowledging that you are error prone.
Olendirk ‘… stop learning and when do i begin ruling?”
You never stop learning, but you already have the capability of ruling – ruling yourself to begin with. The foundation of airmanship is discipline, which includes the ability to discipline your thoughts as well as behaviour (thoughts precede action).
By directing attention to specific tasks we are able to reduce error – simple mistakes. Time is a critical issue, when to direct your attention and what to direct it too. Rehearsal of expected events may help – your own self briefing. Create a mental picture of the flight (the departure), identify points of action; these should be tied to other actions, specific events or points i.e. after checklist complete think about …. when passing xxxx ft prepare (check) FMS… etc. These activities can be practiced before flight – write events down, learn from those which were not as good you expected (the power of debriefing – self debrief). In time, quite quickly, these items (personal SOPs) will be remembered.
Memories are stronger if they are made in relation to an event or a situation – it’s why some bad things linger on; learn from them by understanding where the error came from and then move on – recall the good events where things go right – then there will be more good times to enjoy during your flying – that’s ruling.
You don’t like your performance? That a good attitude; you should always aim to improve your performance. Your flying will be more interesting as there will be something new to enjoy every day.
Errors … if you don’t make them, you don’t have the opportunity to learn, learning should be an enjoyment. But learning from error requires effort (proficiency and skill in thought and action - the second aspect of airmanship); – you have taken the first and most important step by acknowledging that you are error prone.
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I've only flew for 10 years for an airline, and been on the ground for 4 years, I have to tell you, those 4 years really DOES something!
I agree with the LOT-MORE-EXPERIENCED guys who posted here.. you'll never stop learning, and you'll never stop making minor mistakes, what's important is that YOU TAKE IT SERIOUSLY, I personally think it's a good thing.
Because if you start ignoring those minor glitches, that'll be the beginning of possible disasters.
Boy, I could still remember some of the most imbarrasing things I've done...
Blue side up!
I agree with the LOT-MORE-EXPERIENCED guys who posted here.. you'll never stop learning, and you'll never stop making minor mistakes, what's important is that YOU TAKE IT SERIOUSLY, I personally think it's a good thing.
Because if you start ignoring those minor glitches, that'll be the beginning of possible disasters.
Boy, I could still remember some of the most imbarrasing things I've done...
Blue side up!
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Here's one for you, the other day I was scheduled for our shortest sector, 33 minutes block, the flying pilot loaded the CFP, when he called for taxi he called using the return flight plan call sign (no bells went off at this point), fifteen minutes later the ATC asked us what our routing was 
, well needless to say, the FO had loaded the flight plan using the return routing which was different, ATC let me have it (ouch), but didn't report it 
, this flight was so short that I never even considered double checking the box, both of us had flown this flight on numurous occasion. I really wanted to let my partner have it but it was MY responsibility to check the box, which is SOP, doh! 
, very embarrassing and luckily no traffic conflict. Lesson learned.
, well needless to say, the FO had loaded the flight plan using the return routing which was different, ATC let me have it (ouch), but didn't report it , this flight was so short that I never even considered double checking the box, both of us had flown this flight on numurous occasion. I really wanted to let my partner have it but it was MY responsibility to check the box, which is SOP, doh! , very embarrassing and luckily no traffic conflict. Lesson learned.
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A bit like Old Smokey, whose learned posts I always read with awe, I learned to fly in 1965, but have rather fewer hours than he does. Listen to him - his reasonableness test is a great tool to employ in aviation. When taxying in, if the situation permits, try running the question; 'How could we could have done that sector better?' There is always something.
Cheers,
mcdhu
PS I even forgot to refuel once!
Cheers,
mcdhu
PS I even forgot to refuel once!
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Thank heavens for that!
I'm glad someone else is feeling the same as me - I'm now 40 sectors into my flying career and sometimes get a little worried - especially when witnessing the expertise of the man on my left who shows it to be so easy.
Among my Key performance indicators now, is the effort
NOT TO MAKE THAT MISTAKE AGAIN!!
HOWEVR - Tower are starting to lose their sense of humour over my PA anouncements for them to take their seats for Takeoff.
Among my Key performance indicators now, is the effort
NOT TO MAKE THAT MISTAKE AGAIN!!
HOWEVR - Tower are starting to lose their sense of humour over my PA anouncements for them to take their seats for Takeoff.
