Dangers of Unstable approaches - Getting the message across.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: In da north country
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My screen name on our company BB is Hi"N"Fast, because it's funny. Another good friends e-mail address was "2 dots low", because it was funny! They are funny because we can laugh at ourselves. We have all been there at one time or another in our career. We learn from these mistakes if we are honest with ourselves. The key to trying to rescue an unstable approach is to set a limit and stick to it. Try and rescue it, but at your limit or the company limit, GO AROUND! I think most companies have a 1000' limit, some have 1500' some have 500'. If its clear VFR, 500' is good for me. If its nasty, use 1000'.
Check your ego at the door. We are humans and that means we all screw up! Just try and learn from your mistakes.
Another thing is, we are all being trained to be monkeys, Follow your sop's to the "T". Well, the real world doesn't always mesh with all the SOP's out there. Many people don't really know what the plane can do because we have been locked into our SOP's for so long, we can't think for ourselves and don't get the chance to really fly our craft.
We are being given fuel loads that make our stomachs queasy because we are trying to save money by not carrying enough fuel. Some desk jockey tells us how much fuel we have to carry, and when the time comes to do a GA for whatever reason, fuel gets really tight. We shouldn't feel scared to do a GA due to lack of fuel.
thats my sunday morning drivel!
Check your ego at the door. We are humans and that means we all screw up! Just try and learn from your mistakes.
Another thing is, we are all being trained to be monkeys, Follow your sop's to the "T". Well, the real world doesn't always mesh with all the SOP's out there. Many people don't really know what the plane can do because we have been locked into our SOP's for so long, we can't think for ourselves and don't get the chance to really fly our craft.
We are being given fuel loads that make our stomachs queasy because we are trying to save money by not carrying enough fuel. Some desk jockey tells us how much fuel we have to carry, and when the time comes to do a GA for whatever reason, fuel gets really tight. We shouldn't feel scared to do a GA due to lack of fuel.
thats my sunday morning drivel!
Aviator Extraordinaire
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 76
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Back in my Marshal Service days a casual observer could believe that on many visual approaches in the 727 it appeared that we were in fact making an unstable approach to any given runway. Many times I would not roll wings level until one mile final or less. We did this because some of the airports we operated to had some rather unorthodox visual approach procedures, Guantanamo (Gitmo) being one.
However, no matter how unstable that approach appeared the aircraft was always stabilized no lower than 500 feet AGL, the fact that the aircraft was still in a 20 to 30 degree bank was not important.
What was important was that the aircraft was in landing configuration, ie gear down, flaps landing, checklist complete and most importantly on speed.
(It was always fun watching a C-5 land east at Guantanamo, talk about a really big airplane not rolling wings level until about a half mile final, very impressive. I really don't know if the Cubans would shoot at you or not if you overflew the boundary line, I had no intention of ever finding out.)
However, no matter how unstable that approach appeared the aircraft was always stabilized no lower than 500 feet AGL, the fact that the aircraft was still in a 20 to 30 degree bank was not important.
What was important was that the aircraft was in landing configuration, ie gear down, flaps landing, checklist complete and most importantly on speed.
(It was always fun watching a C-5 land east at Guantanamo, talk about a really big airplane not rolling wings level until about a half mile final, very impressive. I really don't know if the Cubans would shoot at you or not if you overflew the boundary line, I had no intention of ever finding out.)
Years ago, at KCHS Base Ops, flight planning to Howard AFB, talked to C-141 crew going to Gitmo. Asked about certification for the crew, they were old hands and said, and I quote, "Landing east, I just put the right wingtip on the strobe at the end of the fence and turn final." Innocently, I noted that they were in Castro's Cuba, not Uncle Sam's. "Yes, and they haven't shot at me, yet."
Castro actually allowed ops at that end during the great terrorist prisoner lift from the 'Stans, so mebbe he ain't so bad afterall. C-5 crews were certification (IP trained and observed with 2-year currency) for east landings, no restrictions to the west. Missions planned to operate prior to the wind shift.
It is amazing to read about accidents like SWA at BUR, how far a crew will push it. I landed in BOM last fall 2000m in thick haze and smog, took a very steep approach to make the landing to the NW after finding the runway at MDA and about 2000m! MDA is about 550 feet as I remember.
GF
Castro actually allowed ops at that end during the great terrorist prisoner lift from the 'Stans, so mebbe he ain't so bad afterall. C-5 crews were certification (IP trained and observed with 2-year currency) for east landings, no restrictions to the west. Missions planned to operate prior to the wind shift.
It is amazing to read about accidents like SWA at BUR, how far a crew will push it. I landed in BOM last fall 2000m in thick haze and smog, took a very steep approach to make the landing to the NW after finding the runway at MDA and about 2000m! MDA is about 550 feet as I remember.
GF
Join Date: May 2000
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This video is from a 767.
Saw it a long time ago but as everything theses days…it’s on you tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqJ3XQJf9ok
Saw it a long time ago but as everything theses days…it’s on you tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqJ3XQJf9ok
