BA's 80 Knot Call
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 609
Likes: 1
From: Around the world.
We use the (100kts) call as a way to check i)Incapacitation of the handling pilot ii)instrument x-check so the response 'checked' is very important in Airbus standard SOP, and the airline I work for.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 755
Likes: 0
From: Europe-the sunshine side
CM , on our SOP states also , that if no answer at 80 kt call ,then PM will say 'my controlls' and abort the take-off.
What are the reasons for the 80 kt call? From what I know those are:
speed check
separation between the 2 phases of RTo: low energy and high energy RTO
incapacitation check
There are different levels of incapacitation,and the fact that the plane is tracking the cl doesn't allways mean that the PF is 100% on the job.Answering a call check,at a specific time, increases the certitude about his awareness..
I knew pilots,very experienced ones,who sometimes flew the plane 'on autopilot' (and I don't mean the airplane A/P) , while their mind was somewhere else. An interrogation check will always reveal such an incapacitation , dangerous due to lack of wareness.
What are the reasons for the 80 kt call? From what I know those are:
speed check
separation between the 2 phases of RTo: low energy and high energy RTO
incapacitation check
There are different levels of incapacitation,and the fact that the plane is tracking the cl doesn't allways mean that the PF is 100% on the job.Answering a call check,at a specific time, increases the certitude about his awareness..
I knew pilots,very experienced ones,who sometimes flew the plane 'on autopilot' (and I don't mean the airplane A/P) , while their mind was somewhere else. An interrogation check will always reveal such an incapacitation , dangerous due to lack of wareness.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
From: down-route
c152pilot,
I guess the main reason is because BA flight operations think there's little chance of someone becoming incapacitated between setting take-off power and the a/c reaching 80kts. As a result, no response to the 80kts call is there to reduce 'unnecessary chatter' during an important part of the flight. Furthermore, no response will prevent unnecessary aborts due to communication cock-ups.
The 80kt call is there as a trigger to remind us that we no longer "stop for any failure". As Sean Dell says, it also reminds NHP to select Reverse Idle or Full Reverse as necessary.
You've probably noticed the lack of incapacitation check at the other end of the flight as there's no response to the "100 above" call on an instrument approach.
I guess in BA we retire early so there should be less chance of us collapsing at work ....
I guess the main reason is because BA flight operations think there's little chance of someone becoming incapacitated between setting take-off power and the a/c reaching 80kts. As a result, no response to the 80kts call is there to reduce 'unnecessary chatter' during an important part of the flight. Furthermore, no response will prevent unnecessary aborts due to communication cock-ups.
The 80kt call is there as a trigger to remind us that we no longer "stop for any failure". As Sean Dell says, it also reminds NHP to select Reverse Idle or Full Reverse as necessary.
You've probably noticed the lack of incapacitation check at the other end of the flight as there's no response to the "100 above" call on an instrument approach.
I guess in BA we retire early so there should be less chance of us collapsing at work ....
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Latin America
I wonder if the fact that cautions and warnings are automatically inhibited on the take-off run? The Master Caution lights are usually inhibited from about 80kt on takeoff to 400ft and engine fire warning bells are therefore usually inhibited from approximately V1/VR to 400ft.
I see it as a reminder of that fact.
D'vay
I see it as a reminder of that fact.
D'vay
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,415
Likes: 9
From: Australia
Surprised that in BA and some other airlines the PNF operates the reverse in a high speed abort while presumably the captain stands on the anchors if not in RTO. Is that a Boeing recommended procedure?
What happens if slippery runway with crosswind where the aircraft can drift sideways and weathercock under reverse thrust sideways vector? I can see an awful lot of talking and hands in all directions from two pilots if that happens. Would it not be more safer and certainly easier and less confusing to have one man handling the full abort (the captain) while the First Mate monitors and initiates necessary radio calls etc?
What happens if slippery runway with crosswind where the aircraft can drift sideways and weathercock under reverse thrust sideways vector? I can see an awful lot of talking and hands in all directions from two pilots if that happens. Would it not be more safer and certainly easier and less confusing to have one man handling the full abort (the captain) while the First Mate monitors and initiates necessary radio calls etc?
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 755
Likes: 0
From: Europe-the sunshine side
Boeing recommends the captain to keep hand on throttles after takeoff thrust is set,and perform the rto manouvre if necesary,no matter who is PF.
False Capture: about incapacity check during approach...what if there is no answer at call 'minimums' ..? This is on our sop the incapatitation call,where if no answer from PF the PM will assume controls and state his decision.
I've heard BA has many differences from average SOP,but you have to remember they are on the market for a long time now,and they have established they're own SOP,a good one if you learn it and stick with it.
There is no perfect SOP,but most are ok if you know and follow ,instead of trying to add or modify from older SOP's you've known.
False Capture: about incapacity check during approach...what if there is no answer at call 'minimums' ..? This is on our sop the incapatitation call,where if no answer from PF the PM will assume controls and state his decision.
I've heard BA has many differences from average SOP,but you have to remember they are on the market for a long time now,and they have established they're own SOP,a good one if you learn it and stick with it.
There is no perfect SOP,but most are ok if you know and follow ,instead of trying to add or modify from older SOP's you've known.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: UK
We follow the new boeing proc's in our company and we have to set T/O thrust by 60kts, the 80kts call is for incapacitatin and we will also get a change to throttle hold on our fma, which is annouced....BA do it differently, but i guess your going to get slight changes form company to company, not a massive issue, the only thing is that if you don't get a response at V1 your only option is to go, which does seem a little strange but there you go, oh and also following the standard boeing sop, the capt will do the abort as his hands are on the throttle until V1...
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
From: UK
A whole bunch of things happen at 80kts...(Boeings anyway)
1. Incapacitation check
2. Instrument x-check
3. Stopping for "any abnormality" has ended, and we now only stop for more serious things...
4. Master caution "attention getters" (lights and aurals) now inhibited
5. The autothrottle system disengages from the throttle servo gears and so cannot move a thrust lever until new selction on Thrust management coputer (earlier versions, or MCP on later models)
...I'm sure there's more, but I cant think at the mo...
1. Incapacitation check
2. Instrument x-check
3. Stopping for "any abnormality" has ended, and we now only stop for more serious things...
4. Master caution "attention getters" (lights and aurals) now inhibited
5. The autothrottle system disengages from the throttle servo gears and so cannot move a thrust lever until new selction on Thrust management coputer (earlier versions, or MCP on later models)
...I'm sure there's more, but I cant think at the mo...
Last edited by teamilk&sugar; 10th February 2007 at 10:43.