sidestick - different inputs
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From: munich/frg
sidestick - different inputs
hi! .... something i always wanted to know: what happens if in an airbus-cockpit both pilots give different inputs to their sidesticks. e.g. due to avoid a collision one is pulling and simultanously the other is pushing the stick.
do the computers give priority to capt.īs or pfīs stick or does the plane execute a mixture of both inputs (as someone explained to me -but he was actually flying b737- and i canīt really believe it)?
do the computers give priority to capt.īs or pfīs stick or does the plane execute a mixture of both inputs (as someone explained to me -but he was actually flying b737- and i canīt really believe it)?
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From: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
SF25
The logic sums the inputs and acts on the resultant summation.
Put simply, if P1 says full left rate of roll and P2 full right, the aircraft goes striaght on. Quite amusing to demonstrate in the sim!
The logic sums the inputs and acts on the resultant summation.
Put simply, if P1 says full left rate of roll and P2 full right, the aircraft goes striaght on. Quite amusing to demonstrate in the sim!
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From: munich/frg
.... but isnīt that totally stupid? resulting summation in case one rolls left the other rolls right in order to avoid an obstacle can only mean u definitely hit it ....
and how about the 777? as far as i know its also fly-by-wire. does the right steering-horn move the same if the left is turned?
and how about the 777? as far as i know its also fly-by-wire. does the right steering-horn move the same if the left is turned?
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From: north
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From: Co Mayo
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From: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
This logic almost led to a major accident. An Ansett A320 on approach went around because another aircraft entered the runway. The Captain took control to fly the go-around, but the FO still had his hand on the stick. The sumation logic gave them a half-rate pitch up and they missed the other aircraft by meters.
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From: Stormy Peninsular
When the Captain announced go-around flaps and took over control (or maybe he was PF all the time), the PNF shouldn't have had his hands on his sidestick. The logic didn't nearly lead them to an accident, the FO did.
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From: London
When taking control from either seat depress the Take-Over Push-Button immediately. Imputs from the other side-stick are ignored.
The LAST pilot to press his Push-Button has priority.
If depressed for 40 seconds the other sidestick is deactivated until it's own Push-button is depressed.
The system is seamless if SOP are followed
The LAST pilot to press his Push-Button has priority.
If depressed for 40 seconds the other sidestick is deactivated until it's own Push-button is depressed.
The system is seamless if SOP are followed
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From: munich/frg
but i believe in "conventional" cockpits where both steering-horns are moving the same the pnf always gets an idea about what the other is doing ... which me thinks gives a higher amount of awarness (and security) compared to flybywire-cockpits
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From: UK
My handle will tell you that I don't know for certain, but I'm fairly sure that training on type will cover the methodology for different aircraft. As for the Ansett incident, back in my ATC days the second you heard the words "I have control" coming from the instructor, you let the controls go* toute suite! I'm fairly sure the same applies if you hear it from the skipper. The 'Priority' button should really be just a backup if you follow your training correctly.
* - Well, relaxed your grip and felt what the instructor was doing, but the gist is there...
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From: I wouldn't know.
Is the "dual input" automatic callout now implemented in all fbw airbus? I once read a very interesting incident report about an in flight incident with a lufthansa A340 in US airspace where dual input lead to a very fast pitch oscilation generating -1.2 and plus 2g in less than a second leading to some injured cabin crew. It was noted in that report that there was no dual input callout since that wasn't implemented in the A340 at that time so both pilots were unaware that they had added up inputs.
Another incident where the priority button probably saved the day was the lufty a320 wich had the left stick roll channel crosswired so that the PICs inputs worsened the effect of a gust after lift off instead of lessen it, a very fast FO (who was pnf) switched priority and took over (wing to ground clearance was as low as 30cm).
Another incident where the priority button probably saved the day was the lufty a320 wich had the left stick roll channel crosswired so that the PICs inputs worsened the effect of a gust after lift off instead of lessen it, a very fast FO (who was pnf) switched priority and took over (wing to ground clearance was as low as 30cm).
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From: Stormy Peninsular
On the Airbus, the PNF is trained to scan the PFD rather that the 'steering horns' in the other aircrafts to detect any abnormalities or departure from safe flight. I find that safer actually.
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From: uk
BAe Systems is currently undergoing development of 'active-stick' technology where sticks are driven/cross-coupled but still retain the features of the FBW sidestick system.
Enhancements such as a 'break-out' detent which permit extension of the flight envelope for emergency manouevres (GPWS etc) can also be added.
As discussed above, with proper cockpit discipline, there ought never be two pilots trying to operate the controls at the same time, whatever aircraft you fly. What happens on a Boeing? The strongest pilot wins? That sounds just as barking to me.
Enhancements such as a 'break-out' detent which permit extension of the flight envelope for emergency manouevres (GPWS etc) can also be added.
As discussed above, with proper cockpit discipline, there ought never be two pilots trying to operate the controls at the same time, whatever aircraft you fly. What happens on a Boeing? The strongest pilot wins? That sounds just as barking to me.
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From: Georgia, USA
On the L-1011 if you pulled and locked the roll disconnect handle, then turned the Pilots wheel full left and the co-pilots wheel full right, with the hydraulics on all four ailerons will be standing proud.
Don't suggets doing this in flight but it looks cool on the ground.
Don't suggets doing this in flight but it looks cool on the ground.