Until the cruise..
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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Until the cruise..
Hi all.
I'm interested in the performance figures for the so called "minibus" lot: 18/19/20/21, from take off to cruise. Specifically, what speeds (IAS/Mach) and rates of climb (fpm) and N1% (or EPR?) thrust settings are used at each.
I know wind, weight, OAT etc make a difference, and my choice of aircraft may render different answers but I'd have thought they'd all be around the same?
For example: Take off power 90%N1. ROC 2000FPM. Until 6,000 where you drop to 1800fpm and 87%N1 at 230 knots etc etc.. until FL320 for example.
Something like that. I suppose my particular interest is in the 320/321.
I anxiously await my replies
I'm interested in the performance figures for the so called "minibus" lot: 18/19/20/21, from take off to cruise. Specifically, what speeds (IAS/Mach) and rates of climb (fpm) and N1% (or EPR?) thrust settings are used at each.
I know wind, weight, OAT etc make a difference, and my choice of aircraft may render different answers but I'd have thought they'd all be around the same?
For example: Take off power 90%N1. ROC 2000FPM. Until 6,000 where you drop to 1800fpm and 87%N1 at 230 knots etc etc.. until FL320 for example.
Something like that. I suppose my particular interest is in the 320/321.
I anxiously await my replies
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Ola
No you haven't said anything wrong well at least not in my opinion.
I fly the A320/1 (mostly A321) myself and can give you a few figures from the top of my head....
T/O that just all depends to what temperature your flexing to... so I can't really give you a figure for that. Very rarely we do a TOGA T/O only in certain fields.... high temp.... high terrain.... short runway... enz enz...
Again it's very difficult to give a specified R.O.C. because it all depends as you said on O.A.T.... weight... enz enz.. But we normally tend to climb with 250 kts till 10.000 than it usually tends to go up to around 300 kts....
Because we have the pleasure of flying with the superb I.A.E. engines we get a very poor R.O.C. especially in the latter stages of the climb out.... sometimes even a R.O.D. (about 200'/min). This tends to happen at heavy weights...But normal R.O.C. is about 1500'/min.
Normal cruise mach is about .78 Again depending on certain factors..... and in how much hurry the captain is to get home
If we want we can go up to .81 but than you can really see the fuel comming out of the back of the engines...
Hopefully a bit of use to you....
No you haven't said anything wrong well at least not in my opinion.
I fly the A320/1 (mostly A321) myself and can give you a few figures from the top of my head....
T/O that just all depends to what temperature your flexing to... so I can't really give you a figure for that. Very rarely we do a TOGA T/O only in certain fields.... high temp.... high terrain.... short runway... enz enz...
Again it's very difficult to give a specified R.O.C. because it all depends as you said on O.A.T.... weight... enz enz.. But we normally tend to climb with 250 kts till 10.000 than it usually tends to go up to around 300 kts....
Because we have the pleasure of flying with the superb I.A.E. engines we get a very poor R.O.C. especially in the latter stages of the climb out.... sometimes even a R.O.D. (about 200'/min). This tends to happen at heavy weights...But normal R.O.C. is about 1500'/min.
Normal cruise mach is about .78 Again depending on certain factors..... and in how much hurry the captain is to get home
If we want we can go up to .81 but than you can really see the fuel comming out of the back of the engines...Hopefully a bit of use to you....
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Yes thanks Must admit, just to make my flight simming hour a bit more real, but I have always wondered what goes on with speeds and rates of climbs.
I've flown to Paris on the 321 (BA from EGLL and back) and both ways was FL240 we were told. I remember that we were not cruising for long, and after my A321 flight simming experience, In noticed that (without starting a realism argument, im only on it for fun) you only just get FL240 and I probably was inaccurate with rates of climbs and speeds too.
I'm on BMI on APril 14th from Heathrow, back on 22nd for the weekend then a one way out back to Paris. Would be interested in whats going on of course, but can't get up to the front, so I thought i'd resort to good old Tech Forum for some innocent PPL holder answers
Hmm, while I'm at it, if I gave you a regular scenario would that help? Say 14 degrees (on the ground at both ends), 321 fully loaded for a EGLL-LFPG flight (and back I guess without refuelling?) and can I say "normal upper level conditions?" Nothing significant, an ICAO temperature?
I'm surprised you are unable to give even an estimate for ROC after TO and even Thrust settings just because we have no temp/weight numbers. It's therefore very significant and must give very different settings even though each plane going up looks like and sounds the same!
Must admit, just to make my flight simming hour a bit more real, but I have always wondered what goes on with speeds and rates of climbs.I've flown to Paris on the 321 (BA from EGLL and back) and both ways was FL240 we were told. I remember that we were not cruising for long, and after my A321 flight simming experience, In noticed that (without starting a realism argument, im only on it for fun) you only just get FL240 and I probably was inaccurate with rates of climbs and speeds too.
I'm on BMI on APril 14th from Heathrow, back on 22nd for the weekend then a one way out back to Paris. Would be interested in whats going on of course, but can't get up to the front, so I thought i'd resort to good old Tech Forum for some innocent PPL holder answers
Hmm, while I'm at it, if I gave you a regular scenario would that help? Say 14 degrees (on the ground at both ends), 321 fully loaded for a EGLL-LFPG flight (and back I guess without refuelling?) and can I say "normal upper level conditions?" Nothing significant, an ICAO temperature?
I'm surprised you are unable to give even an estimate for ROC after TO and even Thrust settings just because we have no temp/weight numbers. It's therefore very significant and must give very different settings even though each plane going up looks like and sounds the same!
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Ahum... well to be completely honest.. most of us don't know them because they are of no significance to us... Because we either do a flex T/O or a TOGA T/O so the EPR settings (because we don't use N1 on I.A.E. engines) don't mather we just accept what the flex or toga gives us
.. But going on your temp on the day.... and a full load... taking off from EGKK (because I don't fly from EGLL)I would say about a flex of 50' c.
R.O.C. just after T/O ...once past our acceleration altitude (standard normally 1500'/aal) We bring the thrust levers back from the Flex/MCT gate back to the CLimb gate, this engages the Autothrust.
Taking off from EGKK 08R the departure would most likely be a DVR 2P climbing initially to 6000' Once we get a further climb clearance. We than, on the FCU pull for "open Climb" That gives us climb power (because the thrust levers are in the climb gate and won't come out of the climb gate till landing because of the autothrust) and we accept what R.O.C. that gives us but with this load it'll be around 2500'/min for the initial stages of the climb (just after T/O till FL180) reducing to around 1500'/min in the latter stages (FL180 to FL300) and probably around 500 to a 1000'/min for the final climb....Which in your scenario would be up to FL350 which we would be cruising at for this short flight..
And as said in my last post the cruising mach would be .78
Because this beautifull peace of machinery is so computerised... we don't tend to use R.O.C.' s and R.O.D.'s because most of it is managed by the computers on board. The only time we tend to use V/S selection on the FCU is when we are doing a CDA meaning a Constant Descent Approach (due to noise abatement).... Which means that in our approach to the airfield once descending below 6000' agl we are not allowed to fly level for more than 2,5 miles with a R.O.D. of less than 100'/min so if they tend to radar vector us around the place we need to keep the descent going however shallow the descent angle maybe... in that case we use a selected R.O.D. but again no fixed value just good sence from the pilot flying the aircraft that day.
Hopefully a bit of help for your sim ride...
Enjoy
.. But going on your temp on the day.... and a full load... taking off from EGKK (because I don't fly from EGLL)I would say about a flex of 50' c. R.O.C. just after T/O ...once past our acceleration altitude (standard normally 1500'/aal) We bring the thrust levers back from the Flex/MCT gate back to the CLimb gate, this engages the Autothrust.
Taking off from EGKK 08R the departure would most likely be a DVR 2P climbing initially to 6000' Once we get a further climb clearance. We than, on the FCU pull for "open Climb" That gives us climb power (because the thrust levers are in the climb gate and won't come out of the climb gate till landing because of the autothrust) and we accept what R.O.C. that gives us but with this load it'll be around 2500'/min for the initial stages of the climb (just after T/O till FL180) reducing to around 1500'/min in the latter stages (FL180 to FL300) and probably around 500 to a 1000'/min for the final climb....Which in your scenario would be up to FL350 which we would be cruising at for this short flight..
And as said in my last post the cruising mach would be .78
Because this beautifull peace of machinery is so computerised... we don't tend to use R.O.C.' s and R.O.D.'s because most of it is managed by the computers on board. The only time we tend to use V/S selection on the FCU is when we are doing a CDA meaning a Constant Descent Approach (due to noise abatement).... Which means that in our approach to the airfield once descending below 6000' agl we are not allowed to fly level for more than 2,5 miles with a R.O.D. of less than 100'/min so if they tend to radar vector us around the place we need to keep the descent going however shallow the descent angle maybe... in that case we use a selected R.O.D. but again no fixed value just good sence from the pilot flying the aircraft that day.
Hopefully a bit of help for your sim ride...
Enjoy
