Where do i have to put my feets?
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FAA Takeoff Safety Training Aid
I found some comments, based on objective data, in the FAA Takeoff Safety Training Aid. In summary, it appears not to matter which method is used.
The pilot’s foot position relative to the rudder pedal can also have an effect on the achievement of full brake pressure. It was noted during the Takeoff Safety Training Aid Human Performance Study that foot position during the takeoff roll tends to be an individual preference. Some pilots prefer to have their feet “up on the pedals� to be ready to apply full brakes if required. Pilots who prefer this technique also noted that their toes are “curled back� to avoid unwanted brake applications when applying rudder.
The other technique is to rest the heels on the floor during the takeoff roll, and then raise them to be on the pedal to apply full braking. No problems were noted with either technique One technique which did not work well was also noted, however. It was not possible to apply maximum brake pedal deflection, and hence full brake pressure, if the heel of the foot is left on the floor, unless the pilot has big feet.
The pilot’s foot position relative to the rudder pedal can also have an effect on the achievement of full brake pressure. It was noted during the Takeoff Safety Training Aid Human Performance Study that foot position during the takeoff roll tends to be an individual preference. Some pilots prefer to have their feet “up on the pedals� to be ready to apply full brakes if required. Pilots who prefer this technique also noted that their toes are “curled back� to avoid unwanted brake applications when applying rudder.
The other technique is to rest the heels on the floor during the takeoff roll, and then raise them to be on the pedal to apply full braking. No problems were noted with either technique One technique which did not work well was also noted, however. It was not possible to apply maximum brake pedal deflection, and hence full brake pressure, if the heel of the foot is left on the floor, unless the pilot has big feet.
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Sorry- I have to step in again. The hazards of taking off with even small braking applied outweigh the alleged disadvantages (which I don't agree with) of the delay of a few tenths of a second of having to lift your feet about 3 inches to apply braking. Take-off how you like, just be doubly, trebly sure you don't have even a minute amount of braking applied! It will be the end of a promising career! The only way to be sure is to have those heels firmly sliding on the floor. I have seen a pilot cause an abandoned takeoff at 120 kts. because he did not have one heel on the floor in a strong crosswind. I've seen someone screw up because of it- I have learnt the lesson. You can find any number of references to 'have your feet where you like'. But the system is designed so you cannot apply braking with your heels on the floor. You can apply braking with your heel off the floor. What more needs to be said?
What needs to be said Notso Fantastic is you must either be very unfamiliar with your aircraft or it is not of a particularly good design. The certification regulations provide ample protection against inadvertent rudder input during take off or landing in a crosswind. Thus you overrate the problem of brake application during takeoff.
The problem of heels on the floor is not only the time it takes to move the feet, but also that the feet are not moved. In time of stress (RTO) we forget – human error.
The RTO training guide is based on accident evidence where crew have attempted to apply full brake by rotating the ankles with the heels still on the floor; in most aircraft types this is very difficult if not impossible. Furthermore when the rudder is only adjusted to enable full travel with the feet on the bar, then you may not get full travel when attempting to brake i.e. crosswind RTO double trouble. Follow the manufactures / industry advice.
The problem of heels on the floor is not only the time it takes to move the feet, but also that the feet are not moved. In time of stress (RTO) we forget – human error.
The RTO training guide is based on accident evidence where crew have attempted to apply full brake by rotating the ankles with the heels still on the floor; in most aircraft types this is very difficult if not impossible. Furthermore when the rudder is only adjusted to enable full travel with the feet on the bar, then you may not get full travel when attempting to brake i.e. crosswind RTO double trouble. Follow the manufactures / industry advice.
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<Follow the manufactures / industry advice.>......which is.....keep your heels firmly on the floor! In support, I can only quote nearly 18,000 hours on VC10, 747, 737 (2 models) and 747-400 (all designs adequate!), with 2 years twin turboprop thrown in for good measure. On every one of them, 'keep your heels firmly on the floor'.
<The certification regulations provide ample protection against inadvertent rudder input during take off or landing in a crosswind. Thus you overrate the problem of brake application during takeoff.> So how serious do you rate an abandoned T/O on a 747, a couple of tyres lost? Because the handling pilot lifted his heel off the floor to better push the rudder in a strong crosswind!
Are we going to have people/aeroplanes bent because the lesson won't be learned? How much of an example do you need? You cite the rare example of an abandoned T/O with the pilot trying to apply brakes without lifting his feet. Out of how many thousands of T/Os with pilots who do not keep their feet down do you think someone will have one or more brakes applied when they shouldn't?
(I'd swear on this board if someone said you get airborne by pulling the stick, someone will pipe up with 'but you can get airborne by pushing it'! Yeah- if you were upside down)
<The certification regulations provide ample protection against inadvertent rudder input during take off or landing in a crosswind. Thus you overrate the problem of brake application during takeoff.> So how serious do you rate an abandoned T/O on a 747, a couple of tyres lost? Because the handling pilot lifted his heel off the floor to better push the rudder in a strong crosswind!
Are we going to have people/aeroplanes bent because the lesson won't be learned? How much of an example do you need? You cite the rare example of an abandoned T/O with the pilot trying to apply brakes without lifting his feet. Out of how many thousands of T/Os with pilots who do not keep their feet down do you think someone will have one or more brakes applied when they shouldn't?
(I'd swear on this board if someone said you get airborne by pulling the stick, someone will pipe up with 'but you can get airborne by pushing it'! Yeah- if you were upside down)
Notso Fantastic the text that FlareArmed referred to is here: Take off Training Guide, see Sect 2_42.pdf 2.3.6.5 Manual Braking Techniques. Note that this is a Boeing approved document.
If you could post a reference for the Boeing training recommendation then perhaps we could question Boeing about any differences, if any. I would still address the human factors issue that if a crew starts with their heels on the floor then the opportunity for error exists, whereas if the feet are on the rudder bar then opportunity for failure to move the feet into a position to give maximum breaking has been eliminated; which improves safety.
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Airspeed and Upwardness
In an RTO stop maneuver, the feet should be up on the rudder pedals and steady, heavy pressure applied until the airplane is completely stopped. Pilots should develop a habit of adjusting their seat and the rudder pedals prior to leaving the gate. The ability to apply maximum brake pedal force as well as full rudder should be checked by both pilots.
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Airspeed and Upwardness
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Eminently sensible, and nobody is arguing where to put your feet in an RTO stop manouevre! The point is....where to put your feet in a Take Off manoevre.
<In an RTO stop maneuver, the feet should be up on the rudder pedals and steady, heavy pressure applied until the airplane is completely stopped
<In an RTO stop maneuver, the feet should be up on the rudder pedals and steady, heavy pressure applied until the airplane is completely stopped
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Just out of interest, some Boeing sims have a facility to measure the individual braking of each pedal. I was demonstrated this during cross wind landing training to show how you don´t always get the manual braking that you think you are inputting. It may be worth the above contributors using this facility to see how much brake they may be inadvertantly inputting on T/O.
