Manchester 24L
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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Join Date: May 1999
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Manchester 24L
Be very careful at Manchester using the 24L runway. The declared full runway length is measured from the VA holding point which is grey concrete however the black topped surface and piano keys marking the threshold are abeam the VB holding point, about 800ft from memory) further down the runway.
It would have been better if the blacktop had commenced at the beginning of the Take Off Run.
Edited to correct holding point errors identified by cossack & andymac.
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: sky9 ]
It would have been better if the blacktop had commenced at the beginning of the Take Off Run.
Edited to correct holding point errors identified by cossack & andymac.
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: sky9 ]
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Your performance book should have full length and 'JB' intersection figures.
We always use the furthest intersection figures we can (caculate perf. for shortest runway length in the book).
Therefore, we know we are ok provided we are before that intersection.
Only if you were stuck for performance would we use full length figures. I guess it always pays to be aware of where the intersections are in relation to your perf. figures.
Don't forget that TORA includes a starter extension (as in this case). The reason the black top starts at the piano keys is that this is the area strengthened to allow landings (the starter extension is not).
Surely, 24R is the same, there is a starter extension before the threshold as well.
We always use the furthest intersection figures we can (caculate perf. for shortest runway length in the book).
Therefore, we know we are ok provided we are before that intersection.
Only if you were stuck for performance would we use full length figures. I guess it always pays to be aware of where the intersections are in relation to your perf. figures.
Don't forget that TORA includes a starter extension (as in this case). The reason the black top starts at the piano keys is that this is the area strengthened to allow landings (the starter extension is not).
Surely, 24R is the same, there is a starter extension before the threshold as well.
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sky9
I think you mean VA not JA since that is on 24R!
Full length of 24L is from T1 but use of this distance requires ATC to operate in dependent mode ie inbounds become a factor.
When there are inbounds to affect use of T1 for departures, then you will either be kept on the ground until the arrival has landed or be requested to taxy forward to abeam VA (where the white runway edge painted lines start is far enough), not VB where the colour change takes place and the piano keys are.
Departures from abeam VA or further west allow the runways to be used without reference to each other. This is in order to comply with ICAO criteria for operations on closely spaced parallel runways.
If you are strapped for performance and need the T1 length, then just ask and you will receive no questions asked.
I think you mean VA not JA since that is on 24R!
Full length of 24L is from T1 but use of this distance requires ATC to operate in dependent mode ie inbounds become a factor.
When there are inbounds to affect use of T1 for departures, then you will either be kept on the ground until the arrival has landed or be requested to taxy forward to abeam VA (where the white runway edge painted lines start is far enough), not VB where the colour change takes place and the piano keys are.
Departures from abeam VA or further west allow the runways to be used without reference to each other. This is in order to comply with ICAO criteria for operations on closely spaced parallel runways.
If you are strapped for performance and need the T1 length, then just ask and you will receive no questions asked.
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Are we talking about the same runway? 24L and JA?
Looking at 24L, the starter strip ends beyond VA1, I use the appearance of full rwy width shoulder markings as my reference. I have seen others pull forward to the landing threshold abeam U1, thinking no doubt that that was the start of the declared TORA. In that case they would have a shorter distance than expected. You are right to beware!
Looking at 24L, the starter strip ends beyond VA1, I use the appearance of full rwy width shoulder markings as my reference. I have seen others pull forward to the landing threshold abeam U1, thinking no doubt that that was the start of the declared TORA. In that case they would have a shorter distance than expected. You are right to beware!
