Speedbrakes on a Cessna 172...
Working in the outback I used to fly everywhere with the window open. Wet or dry season, take-off, crz or landing. Was better than a stuffy plane load of odour enhanced brethren!
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Why people try to invent difficult means of controlling an airplane is beyond me.. .It seems to me that playing with the doors on short final to adjust your glidepath is the last thing to do ! and probably not the most efficient.. .As mentionned earlier, put the aileron in the wind, opposite rudder and maintain your airspeed, the Cessna will simply dive ! resume to symetric flying before flare, keeping the speed where it was, and that's it !. . Take care of the flaps settings, I think the 150 doesn't like to be slipped at full flaps.. .. .Your fuselage is definitely the best airbrake you got on small A/C.. .. .As far as unlatched doors are concerned, I had exaclty the same problem occuring in my Seneca 2 months ago.. .It popped open after take off. After many unsuccessfull attempts from my pax to close it, I decided to land and to fix the problem on the ground.. .Next time I'll try the storm window business.. . . . <small>[ 18 March 2002, 17:06: Message edited by: PorcoRosso ]</small>
Most Cessna singles can fly with the window open. If at all you are curious about it, read the flight manual!!!!. .. .At Tinny has said, window open operation is not unusual in the Oz outback. I flew a window open 2 hour sector in a 210 in 41C heat at 6K with 5 "locals" on board who had not washed and been in the same clothes for weeks. My pump pack air freshener was empty in 10 minutes.. .. .But back to the original topic of speed brakes, I noticed that the N registered (but UK resident) C340 which ran out of motion lotion just short of Cairns Australia 2 weeks ago had retrofitted speed brakes on the wing. They were an aluminium rectangle about a foot long by 5 inches wide and located just outboard of the engine nacelle. A ram pushed it up into the airflow.. .. .Now I have no expereince with the 340, but on its smaller brother the 402, low power settings you dropped like a brick. Is the reason to be able to drop like a brick yet keep the power on to protect the geared engines?. . . . <small>[ 24 March 2002, 01:21: Message edited by: compressor stall ]</small>
Stallie, that's exactly why I used to leave the window open! Even the C210 airvent directly onto your face can't cope with the delicate fragrance you mentioned.
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In relation to opening the 172's windows in flight. I flew one or two that had a warning label attached. It said 'Do not open window above 160 Knots'.. .As the VNE is 160 knots, opening the window would be the least of your worries at that point.. .. .In terms of opening doors. I must say it never occurred to me to try and steer with them. On a serious note more than one accident was caused by an overr eaction to an open door. Spinning in as you try to close a door really ruins your day.
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Opening the storm window of a pa28 and directing the airflow across the face with ones hand is an excellent way to remove the smell of nervous passengers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />
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Another point I would like to bring to you attention gentlemen.. .. .The doors, in most light Aircraft are playing a role in the strength of your fuselage (when Airborne). .. .Therefore, I am not sure it's in somebody's interest to degrade the integrity of your hull prior an emergency landing .. .. .If you think about it :. .. .1) Engine failure (good start for the day). .2) incorrect approach on the glide path (makes you a bit nervous). .3) Weird Idea to use your doors as speedbrakes. .4) Spin because of incorrect use of the so-called Speedbrake. .5)Crash, nearby a perfect landing spot. .. .Not a good day.
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I wouldn't go side-slipping with full flap unless you want a nasty surprise <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .If your Aztec door opens in flight - don't waste time and energy - just land when reasonably convenient and close it - EGSS once let me land, turn off runway, close door, call ready for departure - and off we went again! Tremendous co-operation! Some Heavies even gave way to let us do it - thanks folks! Only time it has ever opened in flight, I hasten to add. .On the C152, I only ever use the doors for roll/yaw - sometimes use control column in winter - it gets cold. By the way, I also fly all high wing aircraft on rudder, trim and power anyway - plus, of course, doors if I can't get what I need from the rudder - my Garmin sat-nav jobbie is so big, I can't use the control wheel in left/right roll mode - it also spills my tea - attached to centre of yoke <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />
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To answer a few points. .1 C152/150s can quite happily side slip full flaps or no flaps.. .2 C152/150s will exit a spin if you close your eyes let alone open a door.. .3 C172s apparently do not like side slipping with full flaps however normal/sensible cross wind approaches could not be achieved if you believe that. . .Should the 'kamakazi' final be required, bleed off speed and alt with this technique before opening the barn doors purlely as a curteousy (sp?) to the next pilot as it may crack the flap guides/runners.. .Oh and before trying to 'steer' an an aircraft with the doors with control cable failure try using rudder (or aileron depending on the failure).. . . . <small>[ 25 March 2002, 02:36: Message edited by: somewhatconcerned ]</small>
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May I throw in a few comments, please ... ?. .. .(a) door open (ajar) in a flying tailplane aircraft is no fun .. the pitch oscillations, initially, are quite alarming. Quite interesting if you are by yourself on the other side of the aircraft. Not the time for rapid and ill-considered actions. The one time I found myself in this situation, I got to a suitable height, rolled left, let go, and closed the door .. and then recovered from the right roll .... after about the third or fourth attempt. I don't know that I would prefer to land with the pitch oscillations, though .... .. .(b) on unpressurised aircraft, the doors' more usual function is to keep out the rain and the drafts ... hence their routine removal for dropping operations ... the possibility of airflow induced vibration should mean that an appropriate review and test program is effected prior to such operations. Pressurised aircraft normally have a structural aspect to the doors.. .. .(c) large flap deflection with aggressive sideslip may present a problem if there be a significant fuselage flow separation. This may cause a significant disturbance in flow field around the tailplane with a consequent reduction in tailplane download and ... an uncommanded (and definitely undesired) nosedown pitching moment ... might not be good fun on short final. Of course, we all have done just this in youthful ignorance and stupidity .... .. .(d) don't know that I would like to find myself in an inadvertant spin in a Cessna unless the CG were well and truly inside the Utility envelope .... it is illustrative to note the very significant reduction in aft limit between Normal and Utility Category envelopes.. . . . <small>[ 25 March 2002, 10:09: Message edited by: john_tullamarine ]</small>
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Of course, you could try flying a "proper" aircraft, like a Piper Cub, which flies perfectly happy all day (well, until the fuel runs out) with doors open, let alone windows <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Or, fly one of the many open-cockpit aircraft, and there's literally nothing to worry about <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .FFF. .------------
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... and the Cub, of course, continues to fly just fine even after the fuel runs out. Years ago, I had an involvement with the gliding movement. On wave camps in the mountains, it was not uncommon for the Super Cub to lauch the guys and gals and then, rigged for silent running, do a spot of soaring until the pilot got bored and decided to come home.
Back to the Cessnas, I recall an article where slope soaring conditions near LAX were forecast but two glider pilots were unable to find a glider available; so, they rented a C150, got into lift and shutdown. Had one nervous restart, but got in some hours of soaring with only a few minutes on the Hobbs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 26 March 2002, 03:32: Message edited by: RatherBeFlying ]</small>
BIK - yes I was getting the 340 mixed up with the 421.... .. .Harder to judge an aircraft's original size when its in bits in a darkened hangar...
