otube/lee or whatver your name is. You may have a BA staff number but you ain't a pilot here unless you've joined in the last couple of months, so wind your neck in.

Kind Regards (is that better Mr Moderator??)

NN

I think you lost that one NN, suggest you stop making a fool of yourself and fall quietly on your sword.

Mr. Moderators Sirs! This eternal discussion about BA SOPs is rather frustrating. BA is happy with them, BA crews are largely completely happy with them and are not forever trying to point out it is or is not the best way to operate. We know there is no answer. This thread is being used as a device to assault and insult BA's style of operation. I echo calls to close this thread down.....it is NOT RUMOURS & NEWS and is getting nowhere, and that explains the frustration resulting in posts that you dislike!

An earlier posting in this thread suggested that BA permits f/o’s (and s/o’s ?) to make the decision to abandon a take-off. I cannot believe that this is the case. Could someone confirm or refute this?

Bobs61,

I can confirm this - an F/O may call stop on any take-off (including one the Captain is handling) for:

1. any fire
2. an engine failure
3. the configuration warning

in addition, when handling the T/O, he may also call stop for:

4. a blocked runway
5. any serious handling difficulties

Why on earth does this shock you so much ?

------------------
"After V1, we'll take the emergency into the air - You call 'Positive Climb' and I'll ask for the gear up. We'll climb away at between V2 and V2 + 25"

bobs

at BA we employ and train co-pilots to a high enough standardfor them to have the ability to call stop. What do they do in your company, pay them to watch the captain f**k up and take off, crash and burn??

BTSM

BA permits a F/O to call stop during the take off roll for any one of several clearly defined failures or malfunctions, some of which may depend on the aircraft speed.

If the F/O is also the handling pilot, they can call stop for a few other reasons as well. All other failures are decided upon by the Captain, who will make the stop/go decision.

We also let our F/Os hold the thrust levers on take off, taxy the aircraft, and make decisions about fuel, weather, alternates etc.

In our experience, training our F/Os to exactly the same standards as Captains, requiring them to maintain those same standards, whilst treating them as professional aviators and not just wheels and wireless specialists, seems to produce the desired result.

Interesting info. By comparison, my employer permits the RHS occupant (regardless of rank or operating capacity) to abandon a take-off only where the LHS occupant is incapacitated. In practice this means that the f/o cannot normally make the decision to reject.

The rationale? Logical, really. The decision to stop is, save for the engine fire case, rarely clear cut. A large number of factors have to be evaluated and a decision made on the basis of experience. The f/o could have the experience and ability to make such an evaluation, but then again her or she may not. The RHS occupant could be a marginal, 250 hour wonder or someone who has just failed a command course due to poor decision-making ability.

The ops manual sums up the situation succinctly by stating that the final decision in all maters affecting the safety of the aircraft must be the Commander’s. Nuf said.

Maybe I'm cynical but surely a '250 hour wonder' is capable of calling 'stop' when an engine goes pop.

I have an hour or two more than that and would not be too keen on keeping quiet if a skipper was about to make a decision which had life altering consequences! If he's going to kill me, I want him to be damned sure I'm not happy with the idea.

Still, in my company I can always take control (never needed to yet!!).

[This message has been edited by airforcenone (edited 12 June 2001).]