BA capt BA8079 20 jun 03
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BA capt BA8079 20 jun 03
Together with my partner I had the pleasure to fly onboard BA8079 LGW NCL on 20th jun 03.
The captain (Mr McRolie??) made the impossible possible: By making a very witty introduction as the plane left the gate, he made everyone watch the safetybriefing preformed by a cabincrew who were in stiches!
A couple of quotes:
"Ladies and Gentlemen in the cabin tonite we have two wee bonny lasses and to nearly as bonny lads. In a few minutes you will see them standing in the ailes. They are not doing their mimeact because the are trying to improve their chances of getting into acting school - but are doing it in order for you to be fully informed about the safetyprocedures onboard this aircraft - so pay attention!"
".......once the seatbelt sign has been turned off - you are allowed to release you belt, however I do recomend that you keep it fastened, as it wastly improves the chance that your seat and your bum reaches the same place at the same time, in the unlikely event of turbulence......."
Very unorthodox, but it worked - and livened up an othervise very ordinary flight.
A captain like that - makes one want to fly BA again.
Captain if you read this: Keep up the good work!
The captain (Mr McRolie??) made the impossible possible: By making a very witty introduction as the plane left the gate, he made everyone watch the safetybriefing preformed by a cabincrew who were in stiches!
A couple of quotes:
"Ladies and Gentlemen in the cabin tonite we have two wee bonny lasses and to nearly as bonny lads. In a few minutes you will see them standing in the ailes. They are not doing their mimeact because the are trying to improve their chances of getting into acting school - but are doing it in order for you to be fully informed about the safetyprocedures onboard this aircraft - so pay attention!"
".......once the seatbelt sign has been turned off - you are allowed to release you belt, however I do recomend that you keep it fastened, as it wastly improves the chance that your seat and your bum reaches the same place at the same time, in the unlikely event of turbulence......."
Very unorthodox, but it worked - and livened up an othervise very ordinary flight.
A captain like that - makes one want to fly BA again.
Captain if you read this: Keep up the good work!
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I agree with Maxi 101. Being funny, only works if you really are very very funny, and then it only works with one third of the passengers. Everyone else gets pissed off.
You can always tell when you are on a BA flight because the Captain always comes up with some comment about having to listen to important safety information - must be in his flight orders. A few minuits later the purser then also gives a similar announcement -must be in the flight orders. This is then followed by the demo itself - CAA requirement for safety reasons, fair enough.. Surely the demo on its own is adequate.
You can always tell when you are on a BA flight because the Captain always comes up with some comment about having to listen to important safety information - must be in his flight orders. A few minuits later the purser then also gives a similar announcement -must be in the flight orders. This is then followed by the demo itself - CAA requirement for safety reasons, fair enough.. Surely the demo on its own is adequate.
54 :
Good idea, except that in the event of an incident, I'm sure that there would be a queue at the door of the airline's accountants and lawyers of people saying "I never saw the demo because you didn't advertise it was going to be on."
Until passengers realise that listening to the demo may save their life, there can't be enough adverts, IMHO.
Good idea, except that in the event of an incident, I'm sure that there would be a queue at the door of the airline's accountants and lawyers of people saying "I never saw the demo because you didn't advertise it was going to be on."
Until passengers realise that listening to the demo may save their life, there can't be enough adverts, IMHO.
Paxing All Over The World
TNF - agree 100%.
When pax start paying attention every time then we can all relax. It never ceases to surprise me how totally unaware my fellow pax are. Not just about the briefing but as to where in the flight time-line we are / that food is being served and the aisles blocked / that the seat belt light is on / etc.
Over the past 20 years, the carriers have made a big thing of "Hey - it's just like a bus, you turn up and sit down and there you are!" that now we have generations of pax who have no idea of what is involved. Should they know? That's a long discussion that has been held before on Pprune.
So keep up with the amusing introductions and I would go further, add the words "Your life may depend upon your understanding of this information." Nope, never going to happen because no carrier will whisper that something might go wrong! My greatest concern about an emergency onboard is the danger to me from my fellow pax. They terrify me.
I refer you to the thread about an emergency evacuation from a QF 744 upon arrival at SYD - now running in the main Rumours section.
When pax start paying attention every time then we can all relax. It never ceases to surprise me how totally unaware my fellow pax are. Not just about the briefing but as to where in the flight time-line we are / that food is being served and the aisles blocked / that the seat belt light is on / etc.
Over the past 20 years, the carriers have made a big thing of "Hey - it's just like a bus, you turn up and sit down and there you are!" that now we have generations of pax who have no idea of what is involved. Should they know? That's a long discussion that has been held before on Pprune.
So keep up with the amusing introductions and I would go further, add the words "Your life may depend upon your understanding of this information." Nope, never going to happen because no carrier will whisper that something might go wrong! My greatest concern about an emergency onboard is the danger to me from my fellow pax. They terrify me.
I refer you to the thread about an emergency evacuation from a QF 744 upon arrival at SYD - now running in the main Rumours section.
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Fiftyfour,
You're absolutely correct regarding the 'welcome' PA. We are required by our orders to include 'BA Operated...', 'Safety & Security', pay attention to safety briefing, seatbelt policy and welcome any OneWorld codeshare pax. The CSD/Purser is supposed to listen to what's been said so they don't repeat the info, but to be honest they are too busy during the boarding to listen to the PA and it is inevitable that stuff gets repeated. I feel sorry for the poor FOs who sit there with 1000 yard stares as Capt Speaking launches into the same diatribe for the 4th time that day; I'm half asleep or signing paperwork while I do it, so they must be sticking pens in their legs to stay awake.
Ahhhh, litigation, isn't it wonderful for improving everbodys lives
You're absolutely correct regarding the 'welcome' PA. We are required by our orders to include 'BA Operated...', 'Safety & Security', pay attention to safety briefing, seatbelt policy and welcome any OneWorld codeshare pax. The CSD/Purser is supposed to listen to what's been said so they don't repeat the info, but to be honest they are too busy during the boarding to listen to the PA and it is inevitable that stuff gets repeated. I feel sorry for the poor FOs who sit there with 1000 yard stares as Capt Speaking launches into the same diatribe for the 4th time that day; I'm half asleep or signing paperwork while I do it, so they must be sticking pens in their legs to stay awake.
Ahhhh, litigation, isn't it wonderful for improving everbodys lives
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In BA it is standard procedure that
A) the captain makes reference to the safety briefing.
B) the passsngers attention is drawn to it starting.
C) that everyone can see a demonstration/all tv's are working
Even then i see one SOB card being looked at about once every 4-6 months.
People take it for granted that the crew will get them out.
WELL, not if the aircraft is on fire and its pitch black ,full of smoke.
Cabin crew are required to remain onboard until the point they reasonably feel their life is in danger.
If the pax KNEW what they were doing, evacuations would be alot quicker/safer.
There is a senior cabin crew member at BA also who say's
(with no introduction)
"LADIES AND GENTLEMAN - Do you know how to get out of this aircraft in an emergency - Do you know the location of your nearest and alternative exit - Do you know fully how to use your lifejacket and the location - and Do you know what to do if the aircraft loses its cabin pressure - ?. . . .
"Well i can fully assure you that the answers to all these important questions and more are now being bought to you on the tv monitors in each cabin .
For your peace of mind i recommend that you give them the next 187 seconds of your full attention."
It works .
A) the captain makes reference to the safety briefing.
B) the passsngers attention is drawn to it starting.
C) that everyone can see a demonstration/all tv's are working
Even then i see one SOB card being looked at about once every 4-6 months.
People take it for granted that the crew will get them out.
WELL, not if the aircraft is on fire and its pitch black ,full of smoke.
Cabin crew are required to remain onboard until the point they reasonably feel their life is in danger.
If the pax KNEW what they were doing, evacuations would be alot quicker/safer.
There is a senior cabin crew member at BA also who say's
(with no introduction)
"LADIES AND GENTLEMAN - Do you know how to get out of this aircraft in an emergency - Do you know the location of your nearest and alternative exit - Do you know fully how to use your lifejacket and the location - and Do you know what to do if the aircraft loses its cabin pressure - ?. . . .
"Well i can fully assure you that the answers to all these important questions and more are now being bought to you on the tv monitors in each cabin .
For your peace of mind i recommend that you give them the next 187 seconds of your full attention."
It works .
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This is something that irritates a great deal.
Pax not paying attention to the safety briefings.
Everytime I fly I watch the safety briefings, and I always notice that everyone around me just read books and magazines, chat with each other or look out of the window.
I know one thing for sure, if the aircraft were to crash land or have some sort of incident that requires evacuation, these people could get hurt. And they would likely be the first to complaign about it.
If you ask me, a clause should be brought in on the sales of tickets.
"If you don't listen to the safety briefings and get hurt as a consequence, then tuff sh
t!!!"
It won't happen,..... bit I wish... and I'm just a passenger.
Pax not paying attention to the safety briefings.
Everytime I fly I watch the safety briefings, and I always notice that everyone around me just read books and magazines, chat with each other or look out of the window.
I know one thing for sure, if the aircraft were to crash land or have some sort of incident that requires evacuation, these people could get hurt. And they would likely be the first to complaign about it.
If you ask me, a clause should be brought in on the sales of tickets.
"If you don't listen to the safety briefings and get hurt as a consequence, then tuff sh
t!!!"It won't happen,..... bit I wish... and I'm just a passenger.
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I fully agree B55.
Sometimes I want to severely smack the arrogant b ds.
If the unthinkable happened, I would not risk my life to help the selfish G!ts, that know far more than the highly trained crew, because they have a frequent flyer card.
I am a BA Silver card holder, now doing my fATPL training.
Sometimes I want to severely smack the arrogant b
ds.If the unthinkable happened, I would not risk my life to help the selfish G!ts, that know far more than the highly trained crew, because they have a frequent flyer card.
I am a BA Silver card holder, now doing my fATPL training.
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..generally I agree, but arguably, the people that don't pay attention have perhaps also heard the safety briefings a thousand times because they fly heathrow-frankfurt every day and know that the emergency exits are marked by the word exit...
It does show a certain distain for the responsibilities of the crew though...
It does show a certain distain for the responsibilities of the crew though...
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Having flown hundreds of times, mainly on BA, I sometimes find myself asking the question "do I really know this stuff ?"
I have worked in air safety and understand the risks as well as most, but I think the airlines have a tough job making passengers understand.
On the one hand, most of the passengers can't even find their seat when they get on board, so asking them to get out when its dark is hoping for a bit much.
On the other, there is the idea that if the plane crashes we're all dead anyway.
Short of giving people a real life demonsration then I don't see it ever changing.
As an aside, airlines don't help themselves with stories being published of missed maintenance, cost cutting etc. Airlines aren't interested in putting in smoke hoods (even for the pilots) and whilst I appreciate your have to draw the line somewhere, real safety of the passengeres has always been the subject of highly dubious cost/benefit analysis.
BTW, the next time you make your cabin announcements, perhaps you could also point out to the passengeres that they should make their to nearest "big" exit as in a real emergency, most passengers using the "small" exits (over wing etc) get fried.
I have worked in air safety and understand the risks as well as most, but I think the airlines have a tough job making passengers understand.
On the one hand, most of the passengers can't even find their seat when they get on board, so asking them to get out when its dark is hoping for a bit much.
On the other, there is the idea that if the plane crashes we're all dead anyway.
Short of giving people a real life demonsration then I don't see it ever changing.
As an aside, airlines don't help themselves with stories being published of missed maintenance, cost cutting etc. Airlines aren't interested in putting in smoke hoods (even for the pilots) and whilst I appreciate your have to draw the line somewhere, real safety of the passengeres has always been the subject of highly dubious cost/benefit analysis.
BTW, the next time you make your cabin announcements, perhaps you could also point out to the passengeres that they should make their to nearest "big" exit as in a real emergency, most passengers using the "small" exits (over wing etc) get fried.
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In response to your post norodnik, It becomes clear to me that you to don't listen to or read the saftey procedures on board the aircraft.
You mention about how the crew should emphisise the 'big' exits as the pax using the 'small' exits would all be fried! If you read the safety card, it clearly points out that you DO NOT open the exit if there is a hazard outside eg fire or smoke! So it is perfectly safe to use the 'small' exits if there are no hazzards. Eg on a 737, the only usable exits in a ditching are the overwing. So may I suggest in the politest possible way, that may be you too should pay more attention to what is being said in the safety demo, and read the saftey card in the seat pocket, as it is there for your safety!
Sorry if his sounds blunt, but we are all guilty of not listening.
You mention about how the crew should emphisise the 'big' exits as the pax using the 'small' exits would all be fried! If you read the safety card, it clearly points out that you DO NOT open the exit if there is a hazard outside eg fire or smoke! So it is perfectly safe to use the 'small' exits if there are no hazzards. Eg on a 737, the only usable exits in a ditching are the overwing. So may I suggest in the politest possible way, that may be you too should pay more attention to what is being said in the safety demo, and read the saftey card in the seat pocket, as it is there for your safety!
Sorry if his sounds blunt, but we are all guilty of not listening.
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norodnik, your final statement is a bit sweeping!
With the BA 737 incident at MAN(8/85), some 25 people successfully evacuated through the right over-wing door; 17 out of the forward passenger door; 34 out of the forward galley door; 52 died.
There was actually some criticism that passengers were caught in a "jam" whilst trying to proceed to the forward doors.
In the event, the rear exits were not used, although the rear right one might have provided some value. From the total of 22 rows of seats in the cabin, there were only 5 survivors from the seats aft of row 16, from where 29 passengers and 2 stewardesses perished.
With the BA 737 incident at MAN(8/85), some 25 people successfully evacuated through the right over-wing door; 17 out of the forward passenger door; 34 out of the forward galley door; 52 died.
There was actually some criticism that passengers were caught in a "jam" whilst trying to proceed to the forward doors.
In the event, the rear exits were not used, although the rear right one might have provided some value. From the total of 22 rows of seats in the cabin, there were only 5 survivors from the seats aft of row 16, from where 29 passengers and 2 stewardesses perished.
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Hi,
The funadamental reason people do not listen is nothing to do with them being arrogant or irresponsible.
The majority of people who fly (passengers I mean) are inherently nervous, they do not understand the process involved, most have never seen the flight deck, they rarely see the guys or gals who are flying them. Basically to the passenger, they are putting there life into the hands of a total stranger.
They do not listen to the safety brief because it implies by it's very existence that something could go wrong, and that is a fact they do not want to admit to.
Now, take off your hats of working in aviation, or being avid enthusiasts, and put yourself in joe bloggs position who may fly once a year - it can be daunting.
Don't beleive me - watch the passengers in the departure lounge, loads of them will be on the phone to loved ones telling them how much they love them and that's they'll see them soon ... how many people do that before getting the train or the bus home?
Gareth
The funadamental reason people do not listen is nothing to do with them being arrogant or irresponsible.
The majority of people who fly (passengers I mean) are inherently nervous, they do not understand the process involved, most have never seen the flight deck, they rarely see the guys or gals who are flying them. Basically to the passenger, they are putting there life into the hands of a total stranger.
They do not listen to the safety brief because it implies by it's very existence that something could go wrong, and that is a fact they do not want to admit to.
Now, take off your hats of working in aviation, or being avid enthusiasts, and put yourself in joe bloggs position who may fly once a year - it can be daunting.
Don't beleive me - watch the passengers in the departure lounge, loads of them will be on the phone to loved ones telling them how much they love them and that's they'll see them soon ... how many people do that before getting the train or the bus home?
Gareth
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I recently flew with SA low-cost 'Kulula' & the demo was done in a very humourous way - and everybody paid attention as result.
I agree that it is very annoying to see people buried in their papers whilst the demo is on. I would love to hear an F/A saying '... and those of you who can't be bothered watching me now, well, I might not be bothered risking my neck to get your panicking a55 out'. I seem to recall that, for a while at least, Qantas' demo video had a line which ran something like 'Look at the crew member in front of you now. It is this person who you will have to take instructions from in the event of an emergency'. It needs to be personalised - people need to know it CAN happen to them. I recall flying the day of SQ6 - CNN had been on in the terminal. Very attentive bunch that day.
I agree that it is very annoying to see people buried in their papers whilst the demo is on. I would love to hear an F/A saying '... and those of you who can't be bothered watching me now, well, I might not be bothered risking my neck to get your panicking a55 out'. I seem to recall that, for a while at least, Qantas' demo video had a line which ran something like 'Look at the crew member in front of you now. It is this person who you will have to take instructions from in the event of an emergency'. It needs to be personalised - people need to know it CAN happen to them. I recall flying the day of SQ6 - CNN had been on in the terminal. Very attentive bunch that day.
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In all the research I did, in general, overwing exits are the ones to avoid. OF course there will always be exceptions to the rule and we should be grateful perhaps that there are over wing exits (although some previous 747-100 operators bent even these rules!!!).
In response to some of the criticsm from some posters. I could probably give the saftey demonstration verbatim from my chair and I can describe how to open just about any door. I am not the person the crew will be worried about.
In an accident where you land substantially intact, the crew (assuming they keep it together) can organise a reasonable evacuation through the most suitable doors. In a more dire situation its every person for themselves and doors/cracks in the airframe are all valid exit points.
My main points still stand. Most pax have no idea and don't care, it wont happen to them and if it does they think they will be dead.
Airlines don't really care (some try harder than others). Where are the smoke hoods, why are babies allowed on parents laps etc etc.
There never will be a safe, economic way of providing acceptable safety that people will pay for, but there are relatively cheap ways of significantly upgrading the safety that airlines just won't take.
Just as the FAA mantra goes, if planes don't crash there isn't a problem, and if there is it would not have been survivable anyway so why bother.
In response to some of the criticsm from some posters. I could probably give the saftey demonstration verbatim from my chair and I can describe how to open just about any door. I am not the person the crew will be worried about.
In an accident where you land substantially intact, the crew (assuming they keep it together) can organise a reasonable evacuation through the most suitable doors. In a more dire situation its every person for themselves and doors/cracks in the airframe are all valid exit points.
My main points still stand. Most pax have no idea and don't care, it wont happen to them and if it does they think they will be dead.
Airlines don't really care (some try harder than others). Where are the smoke hoods, why are babies allowed on parents laps etc etc.
There never will be a safe, economic way of providing acceptable safety that people will pay for, but there are relatively cheap ways of significantly upgrading the safety that airlines just won't take.
Just as the FAA mantra goes, if planes don't crash there isn't a problem, and if there is it would not have been survivable anyway so why bother.
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Sorry but I am one of these infuriating passengers who hardly ever watch the safety demonstration.
But then I fly between 120 - 150 times a year for my job (non Airline), I could give the safety demo.
However what I do is try to get a seat at an exit, if not possible I always work out my escape route, ie nearest exit with fewest people between it and I.
I always keep my seat belt fastened when seated
However I did fly EDI - LHR last week and the captain did make an amusing announcement which did cause me to watch.
Whatever gets you through the day
On On
But then I fly between 120 - 150 times a year for my job (non Airline), I could give the safety demo.
However what I do is try to get a seat at an exit, if not possible I always work out my escape route, ie nearest exit with fewest people between it and I.
I always keep my seat belt fastened when seated
However I did fly EDI - LHR last week and the captain did make an amusing announcement which did cause me to watch.
Whatever gets you through the day
On On
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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On a similar note, how many of you check the nearest fire exit to your room when you stay at a hotel? How many doors from your room exactly is the fire escape? Is there an escape route available from your window? What would you do if you woke up and flames were licking up your bedroom door?
Most people don't give it a second thought but they'll wish they did when they wake up at 0300 and the fire alarm is going off and they cannot see jack for smoke.
Worth reading
VFE.
Most people don't give it a second thought but they'll wish they did when they wake up at 0300 and the fire alarm is going off and they cannot see jack for smoke.
Worth reading
VFE.
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sirwa, I appreciate you fly lots and lots.
However, there are several reasons why you should still pay great attention to the safety brief:-
I for one would like to know that everyone on board pays attention and is as well briefed as possible because, when I am flying as a passenger, my safety depends to a great extent on their performance in an emergency.
However, there are several reasons why you should still pay great attention to the safety brief:-
- Not listening sets a bad example to other passengers
- You will probably fly several different types which will quite possibly have different procedures
- Especially when sitting in an exit row, the cabin crew will want to know that you have been paying attention and will know what your duties are in the event of an emergency
- Safety procedures do change from time to time - if you don't pay attention, you won't know when they change
I for one would like to know that everyone on board pays attention and is as well briefed as possible because, when I am flying as a passenger, my safety depends to a great extent on their performance in an emergency.
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Airlines are frequently permitted to fly with a slide not functioning ( with a suitable reduction in passenger numbers ). If you, as a passenger do not have the common sense to listen to the safety brief, you will not be aware of the unuseable exit slide. Even though it will be labelled as U/S, you certainly will not be able to read it in thick smoke - so always listen to the brief, no matter how frequently you or your ego flies.