Where are the good old days ?
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Join Date: Jul 2000
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Where are the good old days ?
Where are the times that I packed my bag, kissed the wife and kids goodbye, took my car to the airport and parked for free somewhere in walking distance of dispatch, met the rest of the crew, checked the flightplan and the girls and took off for a relaxing few days of flying, fun, food and a beer, in short a good time, for which we were all paid a descent salary.
I reported last week for a seven days trip and started my flight positioning as a passenger. Unable to park a car even within miles of my reporting point I had to take a taxi to get to work. Having cleared the first obstacle I now had to check-in my suitcase. After having been selected randomly by the computer, that by the way always selects me randomly, I had to go through a baggage clearing procedure where I was asked all kinds of questions about the contents of my suitcase and if I had packed my suitcase myself or was carrying packets for persons I didn’t know or had never met. I now had cleared the second obstacle and took off to dispatch to pickup some paperwork.
Here I was met by a friendly nurse who wanted to know where I had been for the last ten days and followed here interrogation by taking my temperature. All done I was on my way to the gate, but found out to my surprise that my flight kit of the last thirty years suddenly didn’t fit through the little gate at the x-ray machine so here I was back to the gate to get a special sticker for my carry on kit.
Of course we were delayed since we were missing a passenger and therefore had to offload his bag, which only took 20 minutes, but that is a norm these days and doesn’t count as an obstacle. We filled in numerous new forms, arrived at our destination and went through immigration, where to my great surprise my first-officer, holding a Malaysian passport had to report at a separate desk.
Here his fingerprints were taken, a mug shot as well, and he had to fill out a three page questionnaire before he could proceed. His passport had also given him the pleasure of being picked out for a special baggage check, which in all took over 45 minutes. By then we had missed the crew transport and had to find our own way to the hotel.
The way back was more or less the same, where our temperature was taken again in Dispatch, and every six hours during the flight ( as suggested in one of the SARS procedures we as crew should follow.
I still like to know what I have to do when , during the flight , my temperature reads over 37.5 degrees. I take it that I have to make an emergency landing and cart myself of to the nearest hospital , while the rest of the crew and 400 passengers go into full quarantine)
At our destination we again had to fill out all sort of new forms , were temperatured ( new word!) and were told by the officials that we had to wear a mask and were quarantined in the hotel. According to article 41 of the communicable diseases control law and article 192 of the penal code of this godforsaken place failure to do so could get you a jail sentence of only two years. I was lucky that I liked pizza’s because that was the only food the frightened room service staff could stuff under the door.
I know times have changed, I know we have to be serious about security and Sars, but I think it’s time to hang it all up, burn my passport, annoy my wife and never leave my modest home again.
I reported last week for a seven days trip and started my flight positioning as a passenger. Unable to park a car even within miles of my reporting point I had to take a taxi to get to work. Having cleared the first obstacle I now had to check-in my suitcase. After having been selected randomly by the computer, that by the way always selects me randomly, I had to go through a baggage clearing procedure where I was asked all kinds of questions about the contents of my suitcase and if I had packed my suitcase myself or was carrying packets for persons I didn’t know or had never met. I now had cleared the second obstacle and took off to dispatch to pickup some paperwork.
Here I was met by a friendly nurse who wanted to know where I had been for the last ten days and followed here interrogation by taking my temperature. All done I was on my way to the gate, but found out to my surprise that my flight kit of the last thirty years suddenly didn’t fit through the little gate at the x-ray machine so here I was back to the gate to get a special sticker for my carry on kit.
Of course we were delayed since we were missing a passenger and therefore had to offload his bag, which only took 20 minutes, but that is a norm these days and doesn’t count as an obstacle. We filled in numerous new forms, arrived at our destination and went through immigration, where to my great surprise my first-officer, holding a Malaysian passport had to report at a separate desk.
Here his fingerprints were taken, a mug shot as well, and he had to fill out a three page questionnaire before he could proceed. His passport had also given him the pleasure of being picked out for a special baggage check, which in all took over 45 minutes. By then we had missed the crew transport and had to find our own way to the hotel.
The way back was more or less the same, where our temperature was taken again in Dispatch, and every six hours during the flight ( as suggested in one of the SARS procedures we as crew should follow.
I still like to know what I have to do when , during the flight , my temperature reads over 37.5 degrees. I take it that I have to make an emergency landing and cart myself of to the nearest hospital , while the rest of the crew and 400 passengers go into full quarantine)
At our destination we again had to fill out all sort of new forms , were temperatured ( new word!) and were told by the officials that we had to wear a mask and were quarantined in the hotel. According to article 41 of the communicable diseases control law and article 192 of the penal code of this godforsaken place failure to do so could get you a jail sentence of only two years. I was lucky that I liked pizza’s because that was the only food the frightened room service staff could stuff under the door.
I know times have changed, I know we have to be serious about security and Sars, but I think it’s time to hang it all up, burn my passport, annoy my wife and never leave my modest home again.
I fear they are gone forever. Aviation as I once knew it will never be the same again. The end of an era 
.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Recently in the MyTravel crew room one of our senior captains announced that he was about to retire; and spend more time at is home in Florida and play around with his light aircraft.
Not one of the 10 or so pilots around at the time, with an average age 25 years younger would have been sad to swap places with him.
What has happen to this job and the world that makes people wish they had been born 25 years earlier?
What is it going to be like in another 25 years?
Happy retirement Captain Tom Beck it was an honour to know you and fly with you.
Not one of the 10 or so pilots around at the time, with an average age 25 years younger would have been sad to swap places with him.
What has happen to this job and the world that makes people wish they had been born 25 years earlier?
What is it going to be like in another 25 years?
Happy retirement Captain Tom Beck it was an honour to know you and fly with you.
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On the other hand...
Although I had to get up at 0410 local (at least it was light out), The drive to the airport was without traffic and with the window down I could hear the dawn chorus. I don't live too far from the airport so the journey was short. I found a parking spot right near the gate and made the bus with 3 munutes to spare. Being the first flight of the day, our aircraft was waiting for us (no slot!!) Pax on then departed 5 minutes early. Lovely view of Paris and he Alps down to Nice. Straight in aproach over St. Tropex. 30 minute turn around and off on time. Again lovely views of the alps and Paris back to England. And back home by Noon.
It isn't glamorous like going long haul but if you like poling airplanes and gettig paid for it, this was about the best day out I have had in a long while
Although I had to get up at 0410 local (at least it was light out), The drive to the airport was without traffic and with the window down I could hear the dawn chorus. I don't live too far from the airport so the journey was short. I found a parking spot right near the gate and made the bus with 3 munutes to spare. Being the first flight of the day, our aircraft was waiting for us (no slot!!) Pax on then departed 5 minutes early. Lovely view of Paris and he Alps down to Nice. Straight in aproach over St. Tropex. 30 minute turn around and off on time. Again lovely views of the alps and Paris back to England. And back home by Noon.
It isn't glamorous like going long haul but if you like poling airplanes and gettig paid for it, this was about the best day out I have had in a long while
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It's all because of the bean-counters.
What happened to reverse-thtust cocktails? Not PC now.
We used to be allowed by Customs two packets of ciggies (one of which had to be opened) and two cans of beer or a "bottle" of wine. This latter was often acquired in the met office at Alicante and was a large flagon in a beautiful straw basket. About the equivalent of one's daily flight allowance if I remember rightly.
If we reported for duty early in the morning we had to trample over empty beer cans left by the previous night's crew in the crew-room.
I also remember the catering van which came to us at Gerona to sell fags and "Gerona Plonk." Also strawberries and other goodies.
Yes. Those were the days. I just don't uunderstand how newcomers to the profession can be so enthusiastic about it.
What happened to reverse-thtust cocktails? Not PC now.
We used to be allowed by Customs two packets of ciggies (one of which had to be opened) and two cans of beer or a "bottle" of wine. This latter was often acquired in the met office at Alicante and was a large flagon in a beautiful straw basket. About the equivalent of one's daily flight allowance if I remember rightly.
If we reported for duty early in the morning we had to trample over empty beer cans left by the previous night's crew in the crew-room.
I also remember the catering van which came to us at Gerona to sell fags and "Gerona Plonk." Also strawberries and other goodies.
Yes. Those were the days. I just don't uunderstand how newcomers to the profession can be so enthusiastic about it.
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Quite agree !
Have'nt flown with anybody recently who is not looking forward to retirement and that includes several young F/O's. One even told me that he would quite like to loose his medical so that he could claim on insurance and do something else !
Have'nt flown with anybody recently who is not looking forward to retirement and that includes several young F/O's. One even told me that he would quite like to loose his medical so that he could claim on insurance and do something else !
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Wasdale Sounds like the Monarch crewroom of the 70's?! The Halcyon days (sorry Court Line) are well and truly over as you say. The prospect of travelling as a passenger with all the hassle these days when I retire and can no longer go straight to the First Class check in fills me with horror!!
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At the risk of disagreeing with some fine chaps, I have to say that I really like going to work! I started commercial flying late in life and have done a lot of other jobs. If you think there is some wonderful existence out there which is so much more satisfying than flying then do not believe it. I have had the misery of dreaming of doing something else and finding it completely outside my grasp. Like anyone else I have my moments, but fundamentally I feel incredibly fortunate to fly an Airbus and get paid for what I love doing. I work for a company that has recently effectively shelved its expansion plans, and that means I will be an FO for a very long time unless I change companies, but I still love the job. Maybe I am mad, but that's the way it is! Am I the only person out there that loves aviation?
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Despite the fact that I am on "voluntary" unpaid leave from my job in the Far East, I have never felt more rested or relaxed in my entire aviation career. There is no doubt about it, ULH takes a slow, steady toll on your health and well-being. Add the post 9/11 hysteria, SARS, SLF's and industrial B-S that have been part of the past 9 years where I work, and frankly, retirement (still 13 years away) is looking better and better...
A few words of advice to those who may feel that it's just too much:
Rationalise the relationship that you have with your employer and with flying in general. Decide what they want from you, and what you want from them. Most important, don't take it home.
Fly safe.
A few words of advice to those who may feel that it's just too much:
Rationalise the relationship that you have with your employer and with flying in general. Decide what they want from you, and what you want from them. Most important, don't take it home.
Fly safe.
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Millerscourt
I remember with fond affection the old Mon crew room days, where you would often meet the same crews that were there on lates when you reported for earlies, and vice versa...those were the days.
Never remember any first class check in from Mon days...maybe things have improved considerably since I left!
They were fun days...mostly because of the crews...I think the regs have changed everything now; I can't say I miss the flying, other than the odd day when one had a really splendid day flight, with beautiful scenery and a happy, bubbly crew with equally happy and contented passengers...Those were the days.
Having said that, driving a desk can be somewhat tiresome too, with the odd very early start!
I remember with fond affection the old Mon crew room days, where you would often meet the same crews that were there on lates when you reported for earlies, and vice versa...those were the days.
Never remember any first class check in from Mon days...maybe things have improved considerably since I left!
They were fun days...mostly because of the crews...I think the regs have changed everything now; I can't say I miss the flying, other than the odd day when one had a really splendid day flight, with beautiful scenery and a happy, bubbly crew with equally happy and contented passengers...Those were the days.
Having said that, driving a desk can be somewhat tiresome too, with the odd very early start!
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I packed it in in 1987, when I was 56.
I could see this coming. No regrets.
Those of you who never flew in the 1950's will never know how good it was, on the job or off.
God be with the days.
May the liberal idiots who destroyed it, be shot with a ball of their own ****e.
I could see this coming. No regrets.
Those of you who never flew in the 1950's will never know how good it was, on the job or off.
God be with the days.
May the liberal idiots who destroyed it, be shot with a ball of their own ****e.
Although I've never been a commercial skipper, I've had some great times 'down route' in the old days:
The Monarch folk at Bangor were always fun. Holiday Inn, Odlin Road on Sinday night, I mean Sunday night....No I don't!
The BA crews one met in Chicago and Dulles.
But the best was a very pleasant night stop in Bermuda when we became good friends with a BA TriStar crew. Terrific time - and the Number One in her little black dress (and even littler lacy black knickers as I later found out) was particularly friendly....
The Monarch folk at Bangor were always fun. Holiday Inn, Odlin Road on Sinday night, I mean Sunday night....No I don't!
The BA crews one met in Chicago and Dulles.
But the best was a very pleasant night stop in Bermuda when we became good friends with a BA TriStar crew. Terrific time - and the Number One in her little black dress (and even littler lacy black knickers as I later found out) was particularly friendly....
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Snodgrass
Snodgrass - Back in 1960, I was a T-34 instructor in VT-1 at NAAS Saufley Field. I had a student, NavCad Tom Sharkey, who asked me if I would do him a favor, and drive is old 1946 Cadillac to my place, because he had no insurance yet, and it was banned from the base.
No problem.
He gave me the keys, told me where it was parked, and thanked me.
A few minutes after I got home, a USMC Captain and the local Sheriff arrived at my door. They told me I had stolen the car of NavCad Snodgrass.
Whoa! I explained the situation, and I drove back to Saufley, and parked it, to the relief of Snodgrass.
It turns out that the same key worked in both cars, and I had taken the wrong one.
No problem.
He gave me the keys, told me where it was parked, and thanked me.
A few minutes after I got home, a USMC Captain and the local Sheriff arrived at my door. They told me I had stolen the car of NavCad Snodgrass.
Whoa! I explained the situation, and I drove back to Saufley, and parked it, to the relief of Snodgrass.
It turns out that the same key worked in both cars, and I had taken the wrong one.
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Steady on Beags! 
It's not good for the ole heart. Anyway, you be getting dangerously close to being put in JetBlast!
Mind you me imagination is as good as it ever was, especially small lacy knicks!
It's not good for the ole heart. Anyway, you be getting dangerously close to being put in JetBlast! Mind you me imagination is as good as it ever was, especially small lacy knicks!
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Norman Stanley Fletcher
Glad to hear you enjoy the job you have. I, too, started relatively late (mid- 30s) in professional flying and paying for all my licences & ratings from day one. You are lucky & more power to you. However, I suspect you could be in the minority.
I'm not trying to flame you, really, I'm not. Just trying to put a very different perspective on this industry & its long-term effects. Quite simply, some of us have the Midas touch, many others do not. I know plenty of friends who have never been out of work by being lucky and in the right place at the right time.
While I love flying and devoted most of my life to it, it has been nothing but heartache for me and my family.
There are ads out there for careers saying "be all you want to be" etc. However, sometimes it does not matter how hard you try, how good your attitude is, how loyal or dedicated - it simply does not matter. I'm trying real hard to think what an almost 50-year old can do to "start" another career/job who has been flying 20+ years, several times almost made the LHS but always prevented because the company suddenly went bust. Sure you take risks in life, but 5th lay off in 12 years, the enthusiasm starts to wane.
If I had my time over again & knew what I now know, I would definitely not choose aviation. It's far easier being either a doctor or lawyer AND you make more money! How many lawyers or doctors do you know that have ever lost their jobs let alone 4 or 5 times? How many of them have to do on a regular basis, what professional pilots have to do? Very few I suspect. I'm not trying to knock other professions - just to highlight how difficult a pilot's life/career can be. I started in this profession back in the 70s, when even then, things were quite good. They have certainly gone way downhill since then, no question.
As for me, who knows? I took a chance 3 years ago after resigning from a VG job as a senior FO for what has become the leading low-cost carrier in Europe to return home to the US (commuting from London every 4-5 months for 2.5 years takes its own toll) to start with a "new" U.S. start-up, flying B757s. I stayed with this company (@ less than 1/2 my previous salary - hey, money is not everything) working my way up to number 1 FO on the seniority list, stayed with them through 2+ years of bankruptcy, involuntarily gave up 15% of my gross salary to "save" the airline, started my Capt upgrade, almost finishing line training/IOE, and then the whole thing went down the toilet! Not only did I lose the job, but the company ran a scam by not paying employees' legitimate medical bills and I'm still paying off these almost a year later just to keep my credit OK. Been unemployed & looking ever since & not a single interview, despite countless cv/resumes & even getting a govt. grant to get another type rating (737NG) which I successfully completed in FEb - but still nothing.
I'm trying to change my way of thinking but again, what does someone my age do? How can I get another (decent?) job for which I neither have experience nor qualifications, if I cannot even get an interview for something I am extremely well qualified & experienced for?
So.....life is not always rosy, Norman, for some of us. Be VERY thankful for what little (or lot) you have & hope luck stays with you for the whole of your career... remember, there's always someone worse off than you & probably through no fault of their own. Aviation is more prevalent to this kind of thing than almost any other career field. When it's good it's great but when it's down, it's the absolute pits.
Yes, I would dearly love to drag myself out of bed @ 0400 and park 2 miles from the terminal and go through that wonderful security and then be dealyed for an hour because we lost our slot. I used to do exactly that & was as enthusiastic as you. Some of us do not have even that luxury now!!!!
P. S. By the way, can anyone make use of THREE ATPLs, five type ratings etc. ?...I can't use them ....going cheap on eBay!!
__________________________
Pie in the Sky......It's Nice To Be Important, but It's More Important to Be Nice!!
Glad to hear you enjoy the job you have. I, too, started relatively late (mid- 30s) in professional flying and paying for all my licences & ratings from day one. You are lucky & more power to you. However, I suspect you could be in the minority.
I'm not trying to flame you, really, I'm not. Just trying to put a very different perspective on this industry & its long-term effects. Quite simply, some of us have the Midas touch, many others do not. I know plenty of friends who have never been out of work by being lucky and in the right place at the right time.
While I love flying and devoted most of my life to it, it has been nothing but heartache for me and my family.
There are ads out there for careers saying "be all you want to be" etc. However, sometimes it does not matter how hard you try, how good your attitude is, how loyal or dedicated - it simply does not matter. I'm trying real hard to think what an almost 50-year old can do to "start" another career/job who has been flying 20+ years, several times almost made the LHS but always prevented because the company suddenly went bust. Sure you take risks in life, but 5th lay off in 12 years, the enthusiasm starts to wane.
If I had my time over again & knew what I now know, I would definitely not choose aviation. It's far easier being either a doctor or lawyer AND you make more money! How many lawyers or doctors do you know that have ever lost their jobs let alone 4 or 5 times? How many of them have to do on a regular basis, what professional pilots have to do? Very few I suspect. I'm not trying to knock other professions - just to highlight how difficult a pilot's life/career can be. I started in this profession back in the 70s, when even then, things were quite good. They have certainly gone way downhill since then, no question.
As for me, who knows? I took a chance 3 years ago after resigning from a VG job as a senior FO for what has become the leading low-cost carrier in Europe to return home to the US (commuting from London every 4-5 months for 2.5 years takes its own toll) to start with a "new" U.S. start-up, flying B757s. I stayed with this company (@ less than 1/2 my previous salary - hey, money is not everything) working my way up to number 1 FO on the seniority list, stayed with them through 2+ years of bankruptcy, involuntarily gave up 15% of my gross salary to "save" the airline, started my Capt upgrade, almost finishing line training/IOE, and then the whole thing went down the toilet! Not only did I lose the job, but the company ran a scam by not paying employees' legitimate medical bills and I'm still paying off these almost a year later just to keep my credit OK. Been unemployed & looking ever since & not a single interview, despite countless cv/resumes & even getting a govt. grant to get another type rating (737NG) which I successfully completed in FEb - but still nothing.
I'm trying to change my way of thinking but again, what does someone my age do? How can I get another (decent?) job for which I neither have experience nor qualifications, if I cannot even get an interview for something I am extremely well qualified & experienced for?
So.....life is not always rosy, Norman, for some of us. Be VERY thankful for what little (or lot) you have & hope luck stays with you for the whole of your career... remember, there's always someone worse off than you & probably through no fault of their own. Aviation is more prevalent to this kind of thing than almost any other career field. When it's good it's great but when it's down, it's the absolute pits.
Yes, I would dearly love to drag myself out of bed @ 0400 and park 2 miles from the terminal and go through that wonderful security and then be dealyed for an hour because we lost our slot. I used to do exactly that & was as enthusiastic as you. Some of us do not have even that luxury now!!!!
P. S. By the way, can anyone make use of THREE ATPLs, five type ratings etc. ?...I can't use them ....going cheap on eBay!!
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Pie in the Sky......It's Nice To Be Important, but It's More Important to Be Nice!!
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AlexB757, I can very much sympathize with your experience;a very sad tale. But hell, you know, money isn't always the key to a happy or succesful life. Ask the doctors and lawyers too, they will probably tell you a very different tale of stressful existances, with only a small handful that make it to the top! I bet the average doctor or lawyer would give his 'lot' in for a better life.
Yes, the grass is always greener on the other side. I look back on my time flying and I don't regret one little moment of it. It was exciting, yet I don't miss it now; maybe I'm lucky. Regardless of our own experiences in aviation, I think the original post stands good and that says that the face of flying has changed considerably in the last few years, and not for the better.
Exceptions accepted, of course.
Yes, the grass is always greener on the other side. I look back on my time flying and I don't regret one little moment of it. It was exciting, yet I don't miss it now; maybe I'm lucky. Regardless of our own experiences in aviation, I think the original post stands good and that says that the face of flying has changed considerably in the last few years, and not for the better.
Exceptions accepted, of course.
Last edited by Horatio; 8th Jun 2003 at 15:32.