The Truth About the Big 6 U.S. Airlines?
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The True About the Big 6 U.S. Airlines?
You don't come to my little corner of Cyberspace for political discourse, so let's jump right past the discussion of whether it makes sense to invade Iraq and head for the reality: What happens to the Big Six airlines when we do take up arms?
Well, no secret there. The Big Six will whine and demand another bailout.
Since the concept of shared sacrifice—not to mention shame—is beyond the men who run the nation's major carriers, they will stamp their feet, pout, threaten and run to Congress demanding taxpayer-funded relief at the very moment American troops will be fighting and dying half a world a way.
And, please, don't tell me that is a harsh assessment. Need I remind you that Continental CEO Gordon Bethune publicly began the drumbeat for the 2001 bailout just 96 hours after 9/11. A day later, Delta Chief Executive Leo Mullin wailed on national television that the "airline industry cannot be the first casualty of this war." All this while thousands of genuine first casualties were still buried in the rubble at Ground Zero and the Pentagon.
No, fellow travelers, these men will be coming at us again with their bottomless bag of phony statistics, half-truths and paid lobbyists. They will again be demanding our tax dollars to prop up their mismanaged businesses. All this while they pay themselves millions in salary, live in $18,000-a-month condos on the company expense account and do virtually nothing to heal themselves and their broken companies.
Last time, they slunk away with a $5 billion grant after getting a Congressional vote in the middle of the night, all while we were burying our dead and searching for our emotional bearings. But this time we can see them coming from a mile away. We need to be ready for the spin.
This is just some of what you're going to hear in coming days as Big Six bosses come to us hat in hand for another bailout. Be prepared—and let your congressperson know in advance that you don't want more of your tax dollars going to the Big Six.
They'll say: The airline industry is in crisis
Hogwash. The airline "industry" is not in crisis, the Big Six are. The well-managed, well-focused carriers—Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran—are profitable. Their traffic, route networks and revenue are growing, not falling. America West, which has cleaned up its corporate act and simplified its fares, is edging toward profitability despite last year's withering attack of the Big Six. Frontier, which has simplified its fares, is holding its own at its Denver hub despite kamikaze-like attacks by United Airlines.
They'll say: America needs the Big Six
Baloney. This nation survived the demise of its own "chosen instrument," Pan Am. It lost Braniff and survived, lost Eastern and survived, lost TWA and survived. Even the security analysts—who never saw this coming—now realize that the demise of a United Airlines or a US Airways would actually go a long, long way to return the remainder of the Big Six to a modicum of health. America doesn't need all these airlines that pursue unsupportable fare structures, repellant consumer-service policies and hub-and-spoke operations. The faster these incompetently and imperiously run carriers disappear, the faster new and better-run airlines will take their place.
They'll say: Small-town America needs the Big Six
We could argue that forever, but let's stick to the facts: The Big Six have no moral or financial obligation to continue serving smaller communities. In fact, smaller cities are being cut from Big Six route maps with blinding speed. Since 9/11, government statistics show, small communities have lost Big Six flights twice as fast as other cities.
They'll say: Security costs are crippling the Big Six
Shortly after 9/11, the Big Six claimed they were spending $1 billion a year on security. At last count, since the federal government assumed most passenger-security functions, the Big Six has contributed only about $300 million of the $700 million they were supposed to pay.
They'll say: The Big Six are overtaxed
An incredible fabrication that exploded in the Big Six's face in front of a Congressional committee last fall. Airline executives use their spin even in front of a Congressional committee.
They'll say: Fuel costs are killing the Big Six
The airlines are right about this one. Even with aggressive price hedging, the Big Six are doling out millions more every day on fuel costs. But guess what? So are you. So am I. So's Wal-Mart and your local supermarket. Gasoline is now selling for about $2.25 a gallon in California. I don't see Congresspeople rushing to the freeways and handing out tax grants to passing motorists. I paid $1.86 a gallon for home heating oil this week, which is about 80% more than I paid in October. Trust me when I tell you that my local Congresswoman was not waiting on my porch with a tax refund to cover my higher heating bills. Why do the Big Six think they deserve special treatment when it comes to the day-to-day cost of doing business?
They'll say: They've done all they can to help themselves
Oh, sure, the Big Six have shed hundreds of thousands of workers in the 18 months since 9/11. They have slashed capacity by up to 15%, too. But they have not fundamentally changed the way they do business. They continue to flood their hubs with unneeded and costly flights. They continue to harass low-fare competitors rather than tend to their own businesses. They continue to squander millions on boondoggles like stadium naming rights. They continue to feather the nests of the bosses with multimillion-dollar employment contracts, lump-sum retirement payouts and appalling expenditures on perks. Worst of all, of course, they continue to destroy their businesses by using a Byzantine fare structure and repulsive customer-service practices that depress both legitimate business-travel demand and discretionary leisure travel.
I won't shed a tear if and when any of the Big Six disappear. Neither should you. More to the point, we shouldn't waste another dime of our national treasury propping them up.
By Joe Brancatelli Travel Reporter For USA Today
It will be interesting to see your coments on this article.........
Well, no secret there. The Big Six will whine and demand another bailout.
Since the concept of shared sacrifice—not to mention shame—is beyond the men who run the nation's major carriers, they will stamp their feet, pout, threaten and run to Congress demanding taxpayer-funded relief at the very moment American troops will be fighting and dying half a world a way.
And, please, don't tell me that is a harsh assessment. Need I remind you that Continental CEO Gordon Bethune publicly began the drumbeat for the 2001 bailout just 96 hours after 9/11. A day later, Delta Chief Executive Leo Mullin wailed on national television that the "airline industry cannot be the first casualty of this war." All this while thousands of genuine first casualties were still buried in the rubble at Ground Zero and the Pentagon.
No, fellow travelers, these men will be coming at us again with their bottomless bag of phony statistics, half-truths and paid lobbyists. They will again be demanding our tax dollars to prop up their mismanaged businesses. All this while they pay themselves millions in salary, live in $18,000-a-month condos on the company expense account and do virtually nothing to heal themselves and their broken companies.
Last time, they slunk away with a $5 billion grant after getting a Congressional vote in the middle of the night, all while we were burying our dead and searching for our emotional bearings. But this time we can see them coming from a mile away. We need to be ready for the spin.
This is just some of what you're going to hear in coming days as Big Six bosses come to us hat in hand for another bailout. Be prepared—and let your congressperson know in advance that you don't want more of your tax dollars going to the Big Six.
They'll say: The airline industry is in crisis
Hogwash. The airline "industry" is not in crisis, the Big Six are. The well-managed, well-focused carriers—Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran—are profitable. Their traffic, route networks and revenue are growing, not falling. America West, which has cleaned up its corporate act and simplified its fares, is edging toward profitability despite last year's withering attack of the Big Six. Frontier, which has simplified its fares, is holding its own at its Denver hub despite kamikaze-like attacks by United Airlines.
They'll say: America needs the Big Six
Baloney. This nation survived the demise of its own "chosen instrument," Pan Am. It lost Braniff and survived, lost Eastern and survived, lost TWA and survived. Even the security analysts—who never saw this coming—now realize that the demise of a United Airlines or a US Airways would actually go a long, long way to return the remainder of the Big Six to a modicum of health. America doesn't need all these airlines that pursue unsupportable fare structures, repellant consumer-service policies and hub-and-spoke operations. The faster these incompetently and imperiously run carriers disappear, the faster new and better-run airlines will take their place.
They'll say: Small-town America needs the Big Six
We could argue that forever, but let's stick to the facts: The Big Six have no moral or financial obligation to continue serving smaller communities. In fact, smaller cities are being cut from Big Six route maps with blinding speed. Since 9/11, government statistics show, small communities have lost Big Six flights twice as fast as other cities.
They'll say: Security costs are crippling the Big Six
Shortly after 9/11, the Big Six claimed they were spending $1 billion a year on security. At last count, since the federal government assumed most passenger-security functions, the Big Six has contributed only about $300 million of the $700 million they were supposed to pay.
They'll say: The Big Six are overtaxed
An incredible fabrication that exploded in the Big Six's face in front of a Congressional committee last fall. Airline executives use their spin even in front of a Congressional committee.
They'll say: Fuel costs are killing the Big Six
The airlines are right about this one. Even with aggressive price hedging, the Big Six are doling out millions more every day on fuel costs. But guess what? So are you. So am I. So's Wal-Mart and your local supermarket. Gasoline is now selling for about $2.25 a gallon in California. I don't see Congresspeople rushing to the freeways and handing out tax grants to passing motorists. I paid $1.86 a gallon for home heating oil this week, which is about 80% more than I paid in October. Trust me when I tell you that my local Congresswoman was not waiting on my porch with a tax refund to cover my higher heating bills. Why do the Big Six think they deserve special treatment when it comes to the day-to-day cost of doing business?
They'll say: They've done all they can to help themselves
Oh, sure, the Big Six have shed hundreds of thousands of workers in the 18 months since 9/11. They have slashed capacity by up to 15%, too. But they have not fundamentally changed the way they do business. They continue to flood their hubs with unneeded and costly flights. They continue to harass low-fare competitors rather than tend to their own businesses. They continue to squander millions on boondoggles like stadium naming rights. They continue to feather the nests of the bosses with multimillion-dollar employment contracts, lump-sum retirement payouts and appalling expenditures on perks. Worst of all, of course, they continue to destroy their businesses by using a Byzantine fare structure and repulsive customer-service practices that depress both legitimate business-travel demand and discretionary leisure travel.
I won't shed a tear if and when any of the Big Six disappear. Neither should you. More to the point, we shouldn't waste another dime of our national treasury propping them up.
By Joe Brancatelli Travel Reporter For USA Today
It will be interesting to see your coments on this article.........
Trash du Blanc
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Thus saith USA Today, the People Magazine of newspapers. USA Today should not speak too much about profitability - it has not turned a profit in its entire history. It is subsidized by its owners.
Didn't say too much about labor costs, though, did he? Probably due to space limitations. I'm sure he loves us too.
Yes, there was an immediate reaction from the airlines after 9/11. But the airlines did a few other things besides beg for loans, like bury their dead and watch their security procedures turn into a chapter from Catch 22.
I try and keep my acidity to a minimum while posting here, but this guy can bite me.
Didn't say too much about labor costs, though, did he? Probably due to space limitations. I'm sure he loves us too.
Yes, there was an immediate reaction from the airlines after 9/11. But the airlines did a few other things besides beg for loans, like bury their dead and watch their security procedures turn into a chapter from Catch 22.
I try and keep my acidity to a minimum while posting here, but this guy can bite me.
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I can imagine that another bailout is definitely on the horizon for some of the big six probably after the end of gulf war 2, especially since many of our american friends will be too s**t scared to fly the pond and other international routes as usual leading to even more losses.
So the inefficient US carriers end up getitng more good money thrown at them and our profitable european airlines BA, LH etc get another shafting along with laid off european pilots/groundstaff.
Oh and the flightdeck of these ineffieient US majors get to keep their outrageous saleries with minimal cuts!
So the inefficient US carriers end up getitng more good money thrown at them and our profitable european airlines BA, LH etc get another shafting along with laid off european pilots/groundstaff.
Oh and the flightdeck of these ineffieient US majors get to keep their outrageous saleries with minimal cuts!
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At this precise moment in time (things may of course change!) I would have thought that the invasion of Iraq is going so smoothly the'Protectionist Six' will be filling their pants!
At this rate, they will have absolutely NO case whatsoever for sticking their nose in the trough for a second helping of state aid!
Perversely, a quick clean war, is likely to be the worse thing that could happen to them. What makes me think they were already relying on another bailout?
Capacity needs to be removed quickly from this business, Worldwide. It is only right that those who have made the 'tough' choices, in other words, 'the fittest' should survive.
At this rate, they will have absolutely NO case whatsoever for sticking their nose in the trough for a second helping of state aid!
Perversely, a quick clean war, is likely to be the worse thing that could happen to them. What makes me think they were already relying on another bailout?
Capacity needs to be removed quickly from this business, Worldwide. It is only right that those who have made the 'tough' choices, in other words, 'the fittest' should survive.
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KADS,
Actually they are not. Many other airlines offer excellent Atlantic connections and are in the the unfortunate position of having to compete without the benefit of huge bailouts, free insurance or chapter 11 protection. They are also bearing the additional costs of security unlike the USA.
Many of these airlines receive MUCH better customer satisfaction ratings too.
I would imagine that the likes of Southwest would love to compete on the Atlantic, unfortunately all the slots are sewn up by the "big 6". If a couple of them were to go under it would release slots for someone who knows how to run an airline.
Whilst I would hate to see the "front line" staff of any airlines losing their jobs a thorough overhaul is required.
It ought to start with the fat cats in the board room, huge salaries are only justified if the company is making money.
Oh yes, a final point. Airlines are struggling mainly because Americans are too frightened to fly. Personally I find it amazing that a nation which has achieved such collective greatness can be made up of so many individual wimps!
Actually they are not. Many other airlines offer excellent Atlantic connections and are in the the unfortunate position of having to compete without the benefit of huge bailouts, free insurance or chapter 11 protection. They are also bearing the additional costs of security unlike the USA.
Many of these airlines receive MUCH better customer satisfaction ratings too.
I would imagine that the likes of Southwest would love to compete on the Atlantic, unfortunately all the slots are sewn up by the "big 6". If a couple of them were to go under it would release slots for someone who knows how to run an airline.
Whilst I would hate to see the "front line" staff of any airlines losing their jobs a thorough overhaul is required.
It ought to start with the fat cats in the board room, huge salaries are only justified if the company is making money.
Oh yes, a final point. Airlines are struggling mainly because Americans are too frightened to fly. Personally I find it amazing that a nation which has achieved such collective greatness can be made up of so many individual wimps!
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I'm Not trying to steal the threat ! But
It always annoys me to see USA whine about gas prices.
In the first post it was stated that the price for auto gas was 2.25$. That is about 0.60$ per liter.
In my country we pay about 1.3$ per liter, that is almost around 5$ per gallon. I have seen even higher price in the last 2 years.
So you think that's expensive
What about 5$ per gallon.
Well just a thought
Peace
Proxus
In the first post it was stated that the price for auto gas was 2.25$. That is about 0.60$ per liter.
In my country we pay about 1.3$ per liter, that is almost around 5$ per gallon. I have seen even higher price in the last 2 years.
So you think that's expensive
What about 5$ per gallon.
Well just a thought
Peace
Proxus
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The Big '6'
With United and US.Air in bankruptcy and American heading their quicky, that leaves Continental, Delta and Northwest. As the CEO of United stated in court last week, with International Bookings down significantly beacuse of the War with Iraq, the future isn't too promising.
In all likelyhood, if the War continues, we're probably looking at the Big '4' at best. Of course, that should make Chris Gains extremely happy because he can then start pushing for the Big '2'. Needless to say, if he had thought out the repercussions of fewer airlines in terms of ticket costs and schedules he might have engaged the brain first
Newark
In all likelyhood, if the War continues, we're probably looking at the Big '4' at best. Of course, that should make Chris Gains extremely happy because he can then start pushing for the Big '2'. Needless to say, if he had thought out the repercussions of fewer airlines in terms of ticket costs and schedules he might have engaged the brain first
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I was reading the diatribe that Chris Gains posted from what was it USA Today, until I got to the part about how we survived with a couple of carriers that have gone chapter 7. He includes TWA in this which is of course not true. After that I assumed the author didn't really have a clue and quit reading.
AirTran, now didn't that use to be ValueJet. I seem to remember that they bought some little commuter named AirTran, changed their name and hoped people would forget who they really were. I guess the public really is clueless on alot of things. Yeah, I really want to ride on those guys to LHR. Right. Jet Blue, now would someone once and for all tell us if Air Bus is really letting them fly their jets for free with no lease payments, I have heard nothing to dispell that rumour as of now. Southwest, what a great company, but they are essentially a short haul cattle car.
AirTran, now didn't that use to be ValueJet. I seem to remember that they bought some little commuter named AirTran, changed their name and hoped people would forget who they really were. I guess the public really is clueless on alot of things. Yeah, I really want to ride on those guys to LHR. Right. Jet Blue, now would someone once and for all tell us if Air Bus is really letting them fly their jets for free with no lease payments, I have heard nothing to dispell that rumour as of now. Southwest, what a great company, but they are essentially a short haul cattle car.
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Take SWA or Jet Blue or Airtran, increase their workforce times ten, and wait five years - things would get just as bad. You want to know the differences in UAL and Singapore Airlines? They're cultural, not institutional.
Last edited by Huck; 23rd Mar 2003 at 03:23.
ASRAAM and Huck-I don't know the statistics of fear, but I suspect that many of my fellow countrymen are cowards, regarding vacation cancellations or rescheduling. Other than some areas of the Middle East right now or a country or two in South America which are reportedly infested with drug-runners etc, I can't imagine letting the fear of travel become so overpowering.
Over a week ago, we picked up a large number of high school kids in Charlotte. They were off to fly to AMS and on to Vienna, and they seemed really excited-admittedly, before any attacks on Iraq began, but there was plenty of news about the possibilities all over the networks.
Are thousands of adults afraid to go to the many countries which are very stable and away from the Middle East?
How many of these nervous would-be travelers drive through heavy traffic in US towns or cities, making frequent lane changes, or around street corners in their hometown with a cell phone (handy) stuck to their ears, or even pushing the buttons and NOT looking outside?
That IS dangerous travel, and these jerks are all over our US cities-truly are much more serious threat, statistically, than one terrorist with a gun or grenade.
Over a week ago, we picked up a large number of high school kids in Charlotte. They were off to fly to AMS and on to Vienna, and they seemed really excited-admittedly, before any attacks on Iraq began, but there was plenty of news about the possibilities all over the networks.
Are thousands of adults afraid to go to the many countries which are very stable and away from the Middle East?
How many of these nervous would-be travelers drive through heavy traffic in US towns or cities, making frequent lane changes, or around street corners in their hometown with a cell phone (handy) stuck to their ears, or even pushing the buttons and NOT looking outside?
That IS dangerous travel, and these jerks are all over our US cities-truly are much more serious threat, statistically, than one terrorist with a gun or grenade.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 23rd Mar 2003 at 19:13.
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DAL
Hey Chris
i don't know where you are getting the info you have perhaps you'd like to expand on it but from my info in DAL Leo Mullins is actually not paid millions...he took a pay cut first and is the lowest paid CEO for any of the major airlines.....it's less than 200k which isn't that much considering that most of the transatlantic/pacific captains in DAL earn more than 200k a year.
He also lives in a modest suburb of Atlanta and not a $18,000.00 per month condo....
Where are you getting your information from???
i don't know where you are getting the info you have perhaps you'd like to expand on it but from my info in DAL Leo Mullins is actually not paid millions...he took a pay cut first and is the lowest paid CEO for any of the major airlines.....it's less than 200k which isn't that much considering that most of the transatlantic/pacific captains in DAL earn more than 200k a year.
He also lives in a modest suburb of Atlanta and not a $18,000.00 per month condo....
Where are you getting your information from???
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I jumpseat on AirTran several times a month (they have an open jumpseat policy) and have nothing but good things to say about them (and no, I don't work for them). Gate people are hospitable, the crews are nice, and the new 717's are sweet.
As for Jet Blue, it was my understanding (maybe wrong) that they are only paying interest on their airplanes with a lump sum due later. Y'all can go to www.flightinfo.com for more details and/or questions.
As for Jet Blue, it was my understanding (maybe wrong) that they are only paying interest on their airplanes with a lump sum due later. Y'all can go to www.flightinfo.com for more details and/or questions.
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Proxus:
You pay about $5 for gallon for gas, I just filled up for $1.70, about 0.85 goes to government taxes.
Why are your gas prices so high in Iceland, or the U.K. or other countries ?
You should look into this, it could be:
- Big mutli-national oil companies are ripping you off.
- Lack of refineries in your area or distribution.
- High government taxes on your gas.
I think the government is heavily taxing you on gas. If you don’t like it then become politically active. If you live in a democracy you can make a difference.
I suspect your government needs these taxes for socialist programs, so if taxes rollback on gas they will increase elsewhere unless you reduce spending programs or increase businesses as to gain more tax revenue without raising taxes.
It always annoys me to see USA whine about gas prices.
Why are your gas prices so high in Iceland, or the U.K. or other countries ?
You should look into this, it could be:
- Big mutli-national oil companies are ripping you off.
- Lack of refineries in your area or distribution.
- High government taxes on your gas.
I think the government is heavily taxing you on gas. If you don’t like it then become politically active. If you live in a democracy you can make a difference.
I suspect your government needs these taxes for socialist programs, so if taxes rollback on gas they will increase elsewhere unless you reduce spending programs or increase businesses as to gain more tax revenue without raising taxes.
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Most european countries are tiny compared to the size of the U.S. and also have excellent mass transit systems that are subsidized partially by motorists.So it is much easier to choose between using a car or mass transit.In most of the U.S. people that drive long distances have little choice.
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ATPMBA
The government here collect about 70% of each liter in taxes.
The price is similar throughout the other Scandinavian countries. Even in Norway, which is the only one of the Scandic ones that process oil on a big scale, the price is similar as ours.
The reason being, at least here, is probably:
Small market
Long distances for each shipment
Last month they even had to shut down all of GA ( at least the ones that used piston engines ) because the vapour pressure (?) of the gas was to low.
But that was probably because of damaged shipment last year ( yes the 100LL is shipped about once a year )
But this is how it has always been, and probably will be. ( we are only 288K souls )
Regard
Proxus
The price is similar throughout the other Scandinavian countries. Even in Norway, which is the only one of the Scandic ones that process oil on a big scale, the price is similar as ours.
The reason being, at least here, is probably:
Small market
Long distances for each shipment
Last month they even had to shut down all of GA ( at least the ones that used piston engines ) because the vapour pressure (?) of the gas was to low.
But that was probably because of damaged shipment last year ( yes the 100LL is shipped about once a year )
But this is how it has always been, and probably will be. ( we are only 288K souls )
Regard
Proxus
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Proxus--I sympathize with you and your fellow aviation-loving-Scandanavians. We have to fight the government to keep our taxes at the already too high rates we have now.
I've run into several Norwegians, Sweedes and Brits who are training or working in the U.S. because it is far too expensive to fly over there.TC
I've run into several Norwegians, Sweedes and Brits who are training or working in the U.S. because it is far too expensive to fly over there.TC
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I think the US is the only place you’ll find ‘cheap’ gas. I would suggest the Government doesn’t tax it much, which leads to the Gas Guzzling, environment destroying, mounds of metal we call SUV’s making lame attempts to park or mounting the kurb so the sole occupant of the vehicle can use the cashpoint. 
I nearly pissed myself laughing when I discovered that the fuel prices on the Kadena Air Force Base in Okinawa (Japan) are the same as on the American Mainland. The military has to take a little piece of the ‘states everywhere they go – right down to the price of fuel!
Filling up in ‘Japan’ (ie. Outside the base) costs about 3 times the price. So the military are filling up their mostly sensible cars (you can’t get those ridiculous monstrosities over there) on American tax payer subsidies, just so they can ‘feel at home'!
Can’t complain though…..saved me a bundle
If you want cheap training, go to New Zealand. Low Dollar = cheap fuel = cheap training. (only if you're spending foreign Dollars though, otherwise the fuel is just as expensive as the rest of the world – except the US obviously)
I nearly pissed myself laughing when I discovered that the fuel prices on the Kadena Air Force Base in Okinawa (Japan) are the same as on the American Mainland. The military has to take a little piece of the ‘states everywhere they go – right down to the price of fuel!
Filling up in ‘Japan’ (ie. Outside the base) costs about 3 times the price. So the military are filling up their mostly sensible cars (you can’t get those ridiculous monstrosities over there) on American tax payer subsidies, just so they can ‘feel at home'!
Can’t complain though…..saved me a bundle
If you want cheap training, go to New Zealand. Low Dollar = cheap fuel = cheap training. (only if you're spending foreign Dollars though, otherwise the fuel is just as expensive as the rest of the world – except the US obviously)