Concorde to Retire?
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Concorde to Retire?
Hi guys;
someone from Brit Air told me that they are planning on retiring Concorde real soon. They have laid off crews and have started cancelling flights.
Anyone else heard anything? It would be a real shame to she her go, especially after all the work they did to get her back flying again after that crash.
someone from Brit Air told me that they are planning on retiring Concorde real soon. They have laid off crews and have started cancelling flights.
Anyone else heard anything? It would be a real shame to she her go, especially after all the work they did to get her back flying again after that crash.
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The big white bird is the SUV of civil aviation. It is old technology, a gas guzzler and has no logical justification. But like the SUV it attracts a certain type of customer who just wants to be seen in it.
And just like the SUV, so long as there are punters willing to pay, it will carry on.
And just like the SUV, so long as there are punters willing to pay, it will carry on.
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Funny you should say that Coachdriver, because I've been hearing comments from within BA saying much the same thing - word of crews being shunted sideways, increasing lack of parts, very low demand on NAT routes. I've even heard talk of it being taken out of service within one year.
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I heard from somwone very high up on the High Life magazine staff that they have been instructed that the magazine for Concorde will not be published after April 2004. The Rocket's always had her own version (apparently!) so the person who passed this on said that this spells the end for Speedbird 1. They also thought that Conc finishing was common knowledge!!
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Concorde had an emergency landing the other day at Halifax looks like its soon going to be grounded
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Well Han
I actually 2 reasons why this aircraft should be retired :
1) I couldn't fly it although I would have given my left n.t and waited quite a few years hoping I would get on a course. The tooth fairy had some other business to attend to rather than bless me.
2) How long before something worse than " diverting to Gander " happens ?
I actually 2 reasons why this aircraft should be retired :
1) I couldn't fly it although I would have given my left n.t and waited quite a few years hoping I would get on a course. The tooth fairy had some other business to attend to rather than bless me.
2) How long before something worse than " diverting to Gander " happens ?
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1) Daft point, if there was a point to it.
2) Best also ground all those old 747-100 and 200s, the 737-200s, all the old 707s, plus a few of those more modern aircraft with high cycles. You never know when one of those might just break up in mid-air, just like TWA800 did, or that China Airlines 747 last year. What, no aircraft left in the skies I hear you say?
2) Best also ground all those old 747-100 and 200s, the 737-200s, all the old 707s, plus a few of those more modern aircraft with high cycles. You never know when one of those might just break up in mid-air, just like TWA800 did, or that China Airlines 747 last year. What, no aircraft left in the skies I hear you say?
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Assuming only three were modified after the Paris accident, and that the contracts were signed and sealed for the seats and interior, there may be some very collectable new seats on e-bay shorlty.
There were those within BA suggesting that the old lady should have been retired after Paris. The problem was what to do about these very expensive contracts to update the interior.
I feel for wallabie not being able to fly it. Many of us did have the chance (look at the seniority spread on the fleet... by no means top of the list) but for one reason or another turned it down. For me it was all about the lack of variety. JFK this week, next week .... with only an infrequent Barbados to ring the changes....not for me. I loved my flying, but it was about the variety and not the airplane!
We should be proud the Brits (and those others across the channel) built it but for me its time the old lady was retired.
There were those within BA suggesting that the old lady should have been retired after Paris. The problem was what to do about these very expensive contracts to update the interior.
I feel for wallabie not being able to fly it. Many of us did have the chance (look at the seniority spread on the fleet... by no means top of the list) but for one reason or another turned it down. For me it was all about the lack of variety. JFK this week, next week .... with only an infrequent Barbados to ring the changes....not for me. I loved my flying, but it was about the variety and not the airplane!
We should be proud the Brits (and those others across the channel) built it but for me its time the old lady was retired.
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Its a horrible yield killer for BA.
Even if it is mildly profitable. They charge the same fare that they get for 1st class on a 747/777. If you took those passangers and put em on the subsonic fleet the subsonic fleet would be wildly profitable.
What the concorde does is skim the high paying pax off the subsonic fleet, thereby destroying the yield. When the price of fuel spikes, the economic case for concorde gets even tougher.
Cheers
Wino
Even if it is mildly profitable. They charge the same fare that they get for 1st class on a 747/777. If you took those passangers and put em on the subsonic fleet the subsonic fleet would be wildly profitable.
What the concorde does is skim the high paying pax off the subsonic fleet, thereby destroying the yield. When the price of fuel spikes, the economic case for concorde gets even tougher.
Cheers
Wino
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I think it costs a bit more than regular first, and a lot more if you want a day return, which isn't realistic on subsonic transport. Its easy to say it skims the high-yield passengers from the subsonic services, but thats based on the assumption that those passengers would choose to fly on other BA services. The speed and the prestige are the attraction of Concorde, once you strip those away the passenger may well find they get better value on another carrier?
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I agree it would be a great shame for this beautiful Old Lady to be retired.
However business is business, and the load factors (i.e. profitability) has been poor for BA since Paris, and some of its former users have either been scared off, or become used to other ways of making the journey. First Class 747 being that much cheaper!
But. Most people we all know would love to fly her, even just once. So who would blame the resourceful BA marketing department for letting everyone think that she is going to be retired soon. That would perk demand, and with it profitability, and BA's currently tarnished image no end!
However business is business, and the load factors (i.e. profitability) has been poor for BA since Paris, and some of its former users have either been scared off, or become used to other ways of making the journey. First Class 747 being that much cheaper!
But. Most people we all know would love to fly her, even just once. So who would blame the resourceful BA marketing department for letting everyone think that she is going to be retired soon. That would perk demand, and with it profitability, and BA's currently tarnished image no end!
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Concorde to Retire?
Huh,
I get the feeling that we are sliding backwards here.
I read the other day that the average flight from london to paris since the 70s has grown longer by 12-15 min due to ATC and Approach saturation.
If we lose concorde, we more than double again the time anybody can freely cross the Atlantic. Concorde is old, but it surely is not an impossible thing to design a replacement aircraft?
Advances in technology should also mean that sector yields would be increased...
I get the feeling that we are sliding backwards here.
I read the other day that the average flight from london to paris since the 70s has grown longer by 12-15 min due to ATC and Approach saturation.
If we lose concorde, we more than double again the time anybody can freely cross the Atlantic. Concorde is old, but it surely is not an impossible thing to design a replacement aircraft?
Advances in technology should also mean that sector yields would be increased...
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There will come a day when she has to be retired, but that shouldn’t be for some time yet. Don’t forget, the people who make these decisions are the same ones who dropped the Tristar because engine for engine it was more expensive to maintain than other four engine aeroplanes, and the same people who wanted to withdraw the 767 post 9/11 because our customers don’t like flying on single aisled aircraft. The Concorde is a nuclear jet with ten engines that irradiates its passengers and crew with bad waves. It kills all butterflies in the path of its transonic bloom, and disturbs the breeding cycles of badgers.
Since Ayling Bob left them out in the wet for a year (he’d sold their hangar to make a car park), there is an increased maintenance load, as you would expect if you parked your Aston out in the London weather for twelve months. In service, skin temperatures reach over 100C, and so corrosion was never a problem.
Wouldn’t it be nice if just for once the beancounters would say ‘So it’s expensive, but it’s beautiful and no-one else has one. There are no competitors.’. But we live in a World devoid of nostalgia and sentiment. Hard ball accounting, big bonuses and KRA’s have probably set the wheels in motion already. You can tell from the absence of Concorde in the advertising that BA runs.
I remember watching the Vulcan just before it flew for the last time and how I felt. I hope the same is not about to happen to Concorde.
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
Since Ayling Bob left them out in the wet for a year (he’d sold their hangar to make a car park), there is an increased maintenance load, as you would expect if you parked your Aston out in the London weather for twelve months. In service, skin temperatures reach over 100C, and so corrosion was never a problem.
Wouldn’t it be nice if just for once the beancounters would say ‘So it’s expensive, but it’s beautiful and no-one else has one. There are no competitors.’. But we live in a World devoid of nostalgia and sentiment. Hard ball accounting, big bonuses and KRA’s have probably set the wheels in motion already. You can tell from the absence of Concorde in the advertising that BA runs.
I remember watching the Vulcan just before it flew for the last time and how I felt. I hope the same is not about to happen to Concorde.
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
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Well, noone has told me it's about to retire.
To answer a few points made earlier:
BA are not dropping services - we fly 7 JFKs in Summer and 6 jfks plus one BGI in Winter. Occasionally, a JFK is left out of the timetable (not cancelled) e.g. Christmas or when the extra BGIs are run near xmas.
Five BA Concs (not 3) have returned to flight status, the sixth is on hold until market conditions are more favourable, the seventh would only be required when a board decision was taken to return to running a very comprehensive charter programme. The Liners and seats were purchased for all seven.
Some parts have always been hard to procure, there is no significant change there.
Someone said Load factors had been low - we ran all Summer, Autumn and most of the Winter with LFs in excess of 80%. Break even is dependent onfuel prices but is 15-25%. There are hard times ahead, which is why there are no plans to restart a double-daily at this time.
Yield eater? Not so - a glance at the PIL shows the high-paying pax are more often than no connecting to or from the Conc. These are pax who, but for SSC, would be travelling First from the nearest hub and so often not with BA.
The Fes are a more sensitive matter. The fleet was deliberately over-established with FEs when the classic retired in order to maintain the programme to 2010-2015. Since Gonesse the fleet has gone from double-daily JFK plus Winter BGI plus a BIG charter programme, to just 7 flights a week. Even before Gonesse a surplus of flt crew was caused by the decision to curtail the charters and some were going to leave the fleet. Post Gonesse only a few pilots made it back (approx 2/5 of the previous). The FEs had nowhere to go and 10 are apparently not going to be required owing to the reduced flying programme. They have our utmost sympathy.
There are grim times ahead, not just for Conc but for everyone flying the Atlantic. There are going to be low load-factors for all premium traffic. But - when the current tribulations are over - the core market is still there and there will be no replacement. A company that grounded this aircraft because of the current climate would be so short-sighted it probably would not weather the storm anyway. I give them more credit at the moment.
To answer a few points made earlier:
BA are not dropping services - we fly 7 JFKs in Summer and 6 jfks plus one BGI in Winter. Occasionally, a JFK is left out of the timetable (not cancelled) e.g. Christmas or when the extra BGIs are run near xmas.
Five BA Concs (not 3) have returned to flight status, the sixth is on hold until market conditions are more favourable, the seventh would only be required when a board decision was taken to return to running a very comprehensive charter programme. The Liners and seats were purchased for all seven.
Some parts have always been hard to procure, there is no significant change there.
Someone said Load factors had been low - we ran all Summer, Autumn and most of the Winter with LFs in excess of 80%. Break even is dependent onfuel prices but is 15-25%. There are hard times ahead, which is why there are no plans to restart a double-daily at this time.
Yield eater? Not so - a glance at the PIL shows the high-paying pax are more often than no connecting to or from the Conc. These are pax who, but for SSC, would be travelling First from the nearest hub and so often not with BA.
The Fes are a more sensitive matter. The fleet was deliberately over-established with FEs when the classic retired in order to maintain the programme to 2010-2015. Since Gonesse the fleet has gone from double-daily JFK plus Winter BGI plus a BIG charter programme, to just 7 flights a week. Even before Gonesse a surplus of flt crew was caused by the decision to curtail the charters and some were going to leave the fleet. Post Gonesse only a few pilots made it back (approx 2/5 of the previous). The FEs had nowhere to go and 10 are apparently not going to be required owing to the reduced flying programme. They have our utmost sympathy.
There are grim times ahead, not just for Conc but for everyone flying the Atlantic. There are going to be low load-factors for all premium traffic. But - when the current tribulations are over - the core market is still there and there will be no replacement. A company that grounded this aircraft because of the current climate would be so short-sighted it probably would not weather the storm anyway. I give them more credit at the moment.
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I can't help thinking that if the USA had been involved in the design & construction, history would show a totally different career for SST. The only one of its' kind in the world and all we Brits can do is complain about the noise and how much of a gas guzzler it is. What happened to having pride in your nations achievements?
One of aviations greatest missed opportunities.
One of aviations greatest missed opportunities.