Why so few girls ?
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Many girls prefer to keep their feminity, doing a sterotypical males job will downgrade their "attrativness".
Or could be cos some can't keep up with the fellas on nightstops!.
Or could be cos some can't keep up with the fellas on nightstops!.
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well I usually object to this type of topic coming into play but there seems to be a rational and genuine discussion forming here!
I empathise with a lot of the seemingly sweeping statements being bandied about. having lived in close proximity to an international airport since the age of 4 and being fascinated by anything skywards I always used to look at the aircraft and think ' that must be a great job, but I couldn't do it!' This wasn't due to my belief that I wouldn't have the ability or aptitude, I just believed that for some reason somewhere I, just me, singled out in the crowd of people, would not be able/allowed to fly.
At the age of 14 I was in the Air Training Corps, still with the afforementioned belief, and I was pushed towards a trial flying lesson. As soon as I got into the C152 I knew I could do it, and that was that. I might as well have signed up with the £60,000 worth of training fees there and then.
Having never been particularly girlie I wanted to join the RAF, but mark 2 eyeballs let me down on that one. The decision was made for me, I wanted to fly and the only other option was civilian. After finishing my A Levels in June 1999 I started an ab initio integrated JAA course in the September (age 18).
I was one of approximately 15 girls in a college of approximately 500. Due to unforseen setbacks I found my self on more than 1 course where I was the only girl in a class of 15, not only that but I was the youngest person in the college for over a year. I fought prejudice because of my age and my gender, but I passed all the ground exams first time.
Having completed my training in December 2001 I am still trying to find flying work, just like countless others, male and female. I would hate to think I get that dream job just because I am female, and do not condone any such actions. I work in a predominately male industry and I get on and do the same job as the men. Both sexes have their strengths and weaknesses (as has been pointed out countless times before) but by working together we make the best of both worlds.
I love flying and I get great pleasure out of introducing people of all ages to aviation. It just made me realise for the first time the other day that I am a rarity (21 year old female with a frozen ATPL) when I was talking to someone who was just booking his CPL course and the date of birth was 1976. Not that old, but older, and it made me realise that I had only met or spoken to 3 other women in over 5 months who were looking at learning to fly.
As I said at the beginning of the post, I do not agree that there should be women only type organisations or clubs in this industry that is repeatedly being referred to as 'a small world', instead we should join together in the good old fashioned spirit of what was once referred to me as 'the two winged master race' (please take that reference in the jovial sense in which it was made!)
I empathise with a lot of the seemingly sweeping statements being bandied about. having lived in close proximity to an international airport since the age of 4 and being fascinated by anything skywards I always used to look at the aircraft and think ' that must be a great job, but I couldn't do it!' This wasn't due to my belief that I wouldn't have the ability or aptitude, I just believed that for some reason somewhere I, just me, singled out in the crowd of people, would not be able/allowed to fly.
At the age of 14 I was in the Air Training Corps, still with the afforementioned belief, and I was pushed towards a trial flying lesson. As soon as I got into the C152 I knew I could do it, and that was that. I might as well have signed up with the £60,000 worth of training fees there and then.
Having never been particularly girlie I wanted to join the RAF, but mark 2 eyeballs let me down on that one. The decision was made for me, I wanted to fly and the only other option was civilian. After finishing my A Levels in June 1999 I started an ab initio integrated JAA course in the September (age 18).
I was one of approximately 15 girls in a college of approximately 500. Due to unforseen setbacks I found my self on more than 1 course where I was the only girl in a class of 15, not only that but I was the youngest person in the college for over a year. I fought prejudice because of my age and my gender, but I passed all the ground exams first time.
Having completed my training in December 2001 I am still trying to find flying work, just like countless others, male and female. I would hate to think I get that dream job just because I am female, and do not condone any such actions. I work in a predominately male industry and I get on and do the same job as the men. Both sexes have their strengths and weaknesses (as has been pointed out countless times before) but by working together we make the best of both worlds.
I love flying and I get great pleasure out of introducing people of all ages to aviation. It just made me realise for the first time the other day that I am a rarity (21 year old female with a frozen ATPL) when I was talking to someone who was just booking his CPL course and the date of birth was 1976. Not that old, but older, and it made me realise that I had only met or spoken to 3 other women in over 5 months who were looking at learning to fly.
As I said at the beginning of the post, I do not agree that there should be women only type organisations or clubs in this industry that is repeatedly being referred to as 'a small world', instead we should join together in the good old fashioned spirit of what was once referred to me as 'the two winged master race' (please take that reference in the jovial sense in which it was made!)
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I accept that my story is not typical. My father is a pilot, my parents treated both my brother and I and with encouragement, whatever we wanted to do. I really believe that if I had wanted to be a hairdresser, they would have supported me as much as they are now (and you can imagine how pleased Dad is that I want to become a pilot despite absolutely no pressure from him).
Of my female peers, a significant number are already encumbered with families. Several of those were girls who professed ambition. Good luck to them; I was blessed with a good mother, and it is a role that requires more than a few months waddling and a few hours pain.
Maybe that is the difference. It’s OK for a guy to have obsessive ambition (how many autobiographies of successful guys include words to the effect that they saw little of their families?). It is less acceptable in a girl.
My uncle is a senior doctor. He says more there are women graduating from medical school than men. However, whereas male junior hospital doctors accept that their career demands 100% effort, the women expect time off for their families, expect their male colleagues to take up the slack and do not accept that a male colleague who has applied himself 100% to his career will advance faster than the girls.
That was a cautionary tale aimed at me. Put those two things together and we have the situation where:
- It’s an equal race at the starting block
- But you girls who recognise your biological destiny have to accept that the course becomes tougher for you (unless, apparently, you are a doctor)
Now, going back to Rob’s point (much more PC than mine), and bearing in mind that 90% of talk when you are a teenage girl is about boys and relationships and the inevitable outcome of those 2 in combination, is it surprising that many girls look at the potential task ahead of them and give up before it is started:
- take on the guys at their own game, on their home ground
- potentially raise a family at the same time
- don’t expect any extra rope
- have to be a tomboy (more of a man than the men) because otherwise you’ll be accused of using your feminine charms to your advantage
I’ve read some inspiring stories on PPRuNe written by women; look above this post on this thread for a couple. The only thing I regret is that they are particularly inspiring to me because I am a woman, rather than just a wannabe.
Of my female peers, a significant number are already encumbered with families. Several of those were girls who professed ambition. Good luck to them; I was blessed with a good mother, and it is a role that requires more than a few months waddling and a few hours pain.
Maybe that is the difference. It’s OK for a guy to have obsessive ambition (how many autobiographies of successful guys include words to the effect that they saw little of their families?). It is less acceptable in a girl.
My uncle is a senior doctor. He says more there are women graduating from medical school than men. However, whereas male junior hospital doctors accept that their career demands 100% effort, the women expect time off for their families, expect their male colleagues to take up the slack and do not accept that a male colleague who has applied himself 100% to his career will advance faster than the girls.
That was a cautionary tale aimed at me. Put those two things together and we have the situation where:
- It’s an equal race at the starting block
- But you girls who recognise your biological destiny have to accept that the course becomes tougher for you (unless, apparently, you are a doctor)
Now, going back to Rob’s point (much more PC than mine), and bearing in mind that 90% of talk when you are a teenage girl is about boys and relationships and the inevitable outcome of those 2 in combination, is it surprising that many girls look at the potential task ahead of them and give up before it is started:
- take on the guys at their own game, on their home ground
- potentially raise a family at the same time
- don’t expect any extra rope
- have to be a tomboy (more of a man than the men) because otherwise you’ll be accused of using your feminine charms to your advantage
I’ve read some inspiring stories on PPRuNe written by women; look above this post on this thread for a couple. The only thing I regret is that they are particularly inspiring to me because I am a woman, rather than just a wannabe.
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I guess in the end people should be allowed to do what they want to do. They should be encouraged but not forced to do something, regardless of their sex.
Personally, I think flying is a rather boring, repetitive, and procedurally orienatated type of job. Not really the kind of thing that most women aspire to.
To get back to basics however we all know the fundamental difference between men and women, it will never change, otherwise I suspect the planet might get a little quiet!
Being a pilot is fairly straightfoward, being a parent is THE most difficult job on the planet.
Harry
p.s. What I cannot understand is how anyone, male or female, does not like football, the best thing on the planet. That's what I seek, less flying, more footie!
Personally, I think flying is a rather boring, repetitive, and procedurally orienatated type of job. Not really the kind of thing that most women aspire to.
To get back to basics however we all know the fundamental difference between men and women, it will never change, otherwise I suspect the planet might get a little quiet!
Being a pilot is fairly straightfoward, being a parent is THE most difficult job on the planet.
Harry
p.s. What I cannot understand is how anyone, male or female, does not like football, the best thing on the planet. That's what I seek, less flying, more footie!
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'on par with all','equal opportunities','level playing field','far less real prejudice ','no difference in the opportunities ', are all flattering comments that I've elicited from this excellent thread and from other threads on this brilliant website.But....really?.Perhaps the majority of the world's airlines are,especially the 'majors' but if we are truly to progress down the road of any of the aforementioned comments,are there any comments on the fact that the current #1 Airline has a 'no female in the cockpit' policy.'Aviation is far too personal to be just about gender' I certainly agree but if 'in 5 or 10 years time this subject would never come up' then as has often been said 'change must come from the top'.
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What I am finding weird from this discussion that it is becoming apparent that schools and various social pressures do all they can (or at least they did in my case) to stop girls having any ambition at all and then companies (not just in aviation) have to spend a lot of effort trying to entice girls to apply for the job. Once the girl (now a woman) is esconced in the job she is once again put off doing the job by the pressure on her from her company if she decides to have a child. It is a hard line to tread and consequently a lot of girls go for the easy life of a 'bank or check out girl'. However it is a simple fact of life that if every woman gave up having children in order to work, the human race would come to a very abrupt end. However it is also true that if every woman gave up working full stop to have children the country would probably run into serious financial trouble (think of all those old women with no pensions of their own relying on the state once their husband has died). So we need women to work, but we also need women to keep our families in running order.
How this is going to be encouraged is beyond me. I can only say I received absolutely no support from my school regarding any career. All of the nuns thought we would make lovely mothers, and jobs were only for boys. And since this was an all girls school, jobs and career advice were not on the agenda. My mother was very supportive, but she wanted me to be a professional showjumper (her own childhood dream).
How this is going to be encouraged is beyond me. I can only say I received absolutely no support from my school regarding any career. All of the nuns thought we would make lovely mothers, and jobs were only for boys. And since this was an all girls school, jobs and career advice were not on the agenda. My mother was very supportive, but she wanted me to be a professional showjumper (her own childhood dream).
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Not much mention yet of the role which the media plays in shaping people's expectations. Increasingly our lives are being "dumbed down" and access to challenging debate is being replaced by "spin" and carefully doctored statistics.
The obsession with quick fix solutions to life's problems has spilled over into every area, and the key seems to be that the new paradigm is abrogation of personal responsibility at all costs.
I dont think it's just a problem of women not wanting to be Pilots, but a wider malaise affecting society in general.
George Orwell thankfully got it wrong. Aldous Huxley sadly seems to have been pretty spot on with regard to our future Social development.
I'm probably spouting off the thread...sooo....
Female pilots are bloody excellent and fine individuals to have around. We should have more of them.
I'm done now and I'll go back in my box.
The obsession with quick fix solutions to life's problems has spilled over into every area, and the key seems to be that the new paradigm is abrogation of personal responsibility at all costs.
I dont think it's just a problem of women not wanting to be Pilots, but a wider malaise affecting society in general.
George Orwell thankfully got it wrong. Aldous Huxley sadly seems to have been pretty spot on with regard to our future Social development.
I'm probably spouting off the thread...sooo....
Female pilots are bloody excellent and fine individuals to have around. We should have more of them.
I'm done now and I'll go back in my box.
Yeah but have you ever actually seen a woman try to parallel park?!
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Interesting points, all. I wonder where each of us would be now had we not had to cope with lack of encouragement, or too much encouragement in an unsuitable direction, when we were at school! I came from a family of aircrew (I'm the 3rd generation), and while I'd love my kids (one of each) to consider flying, I'd never shove it down their throats. It would be great to see them in music, or accountancy, or medicine, or family-raising, or whatever else they want to do - just so long as it is productive and satisfying for them. However, my own enthusiasms are likely to be fairly influential to them. I well remember enjoying my Dad's fantastic stories about his exploits in the Lightning when I was young (and some of the post-Happy Hour unrepeatable ones!). It would be crazy to suggest that his enthusiasm for his job didn't influence me. My Mum's music background gave me equal inspiration. Aviation won, but I still have great fun with music. It's perpetually disappointing to me that others weren't so well prepared for enjoying and making a fulfilling life.
However, there are real commercial problems when an employee decides that they want to follow two careers at once. Sally said: My uncle is a senior doctor. He says more there are women graduating from medical school than men. However, whereas male junior hospital doctors accept that their career demands 100% effort, the women expect time off for their families, expect their male colleagues to take up the slack and do not accept that a male colleague who has applied himself 100% to his career will advance faster than the girls. There are real issues here, and they will surface wherever women wish to combine parenting with a career and demand (or are forced into) time off to achieve this. I don't have the answers, but I suspect that we do need to stop trying to convince everyone that they can do anything and everything they want to, and instead that we all need to accept compromise as part of life.
Still, enough of that. If you are female and want to be a pilot, welcome to the club! Give it all your attention and effort and you will no doubt find that, in most companies, prejudice is conspicuously absent. Good luck!
However, there are real commercial problems when an employee decides that they want to follow two careers at once. Sally said: My uncle is a senior doctor. He says more there are women graduating from medical school than men. However, whereas male junior hospital doctors accept that their career demands 100% effort, the women expect time off for their families, expect their male colleagues to take up the slack and do not accept that a male colleague who has applied himself 100% to his career will advance faster than the girls. There are real issues here, and they will surface wherever women wish to combine parenting with a career and demand (or are forced into) time off to achieve this. I don't have the answers, but I suspect that we do need to stop trying to convince everyone that they can do anything and everything they want to, and instead that we all need to accept compromise as part of life.
Still, enough of that. If you are female and want to be a pilot, welcome to the club! Give it all your attention and effort and you will no doubt find that, in most companies, prejudice is conspicuously absent. Good luck!
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Just a thought Pandora but it's not only women who receive no encouragement ref careers. I got little encouragement at all when I was considering employment. The majority of people are expected to take regular jobs in everyday careers, no-one is encouraged to achieve a dream!
Also, I see nothing wrong with wanting a family. I know many people who have this as their main aim in life, they don't want to change the world, fly to the moon, or be Prime Minister, they just want to have a family of their own.
Until people stop denigrating those who choose family life over a "career" then "having it all" (ie. burn't out by 40) will be forced upon successive generations.
Harry
p.s. Any child of mine who decides on a career in aviation is likely to be disowned!
Also, I see nothing wrong with wanting a family. I know many people who have this as their main aim in life, they don't want to change the world, fly to the moon, or be Prime Minister, they just want to have a family of their own.
Until people stop denigrating those who choose family life over a "career" then "having it all" (ie. burn't out by 40) will be forced upon successive generations.
Harry
p.s. Any child of mine who decides on a career in aviation is likely to be disowned!
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Lets be honest guys.
We do need more female pilots, and more encouragement (tax / vat relief, government funding ...) for both sexes to get into this career.
In many cases woman are smarter and more mature than us, perfect for this job. Someone mentioned that only 1 % of all pilots are female, that amazes me.
Just because female pilots can't wear skirts doesn't make the job these femenin, does it ?. Being a pilot today is a very proffesional and technical job, ideal for woman to aspire to.
Out of all the frozen atpl FI's I have seen at our local (solent @ EGHI) over the past four years. The most proffesional and dedicated out of about 10 was a woman. Often twice as good as her males colleages (especially spurge). She went on to 733's with Go a few years back after a stunning sim ride and is doing very well last I heard. well done Kate
We do need more female pilots, and more encouragement (tax / vat relief, government funding ...) for both sexes to get into this career.
In many cases woman are smarter and more mature than us, perfect for this job. Someone mentioned that only 1 % of all pilots are female, that amazes me.
Just because female pilots can't wear skirts doesn't make the job these femenin, does it ?. Being a pilot today is a very proffesional and technical job, ideal for woman to aspire to.
Out of all the frozen atpl FI's I have seen at our local (solent @ EGHI) over the past four years. The most proffesional and dedicated out of about 10 was a woman. Often twice as good as her males colleages (especially spurge). She went on to 733's with Go a few years back after a stunning sim ride and is doing very well last I heard. well done Kate
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There is a good book in circulation at present, 'Why men can't listen and women can't read maps'. It is a serious study into the differences twixt the sex's and explains a lot. It doesn't seek to establish any order of superiority and is refreshingly non PC but examines the strengths and merits of males and females and how they differ.
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Sally,
Before you quote the comments of your small minded bigoted uncle, I suggest you research the subject yourself.
By quoting such utter rubbish you perpetuate the myths and sexism that some of your fellow females have to endure everyday.
I and many of my colleagues are no less dedicated than our male counterparts, we may not follow the traditional brown nosing the boss, fawning adoration route that many of my male colleagues aspire to, but that is in no way a reflection on my dedication.
If you wish to comment or quote ill informed sources, on another career, may I suggest you either do some reseach first or preferably engage what functioning neurones you have and keep quiet.
There is plenty of research to show that women medics, do take time off from their careers, however, they are more likely to return and that longterm retention is higher in females than males.
I will now stop my tirade before my BP shoots up even higher and I stroke out, thus expecting my male colleagues to cover my work, as I lie on ITU. Only problem is, there are none around because they have all taken a half day and are playing golf!!!
Before you quote the comments of your small minded bigoted uncle, I suggest you research the subject yourself.
By quoting such utter rubbish you perpetuate the myths and sexism that some of your fellow females have to endure everyday.
I and many of my colleagues are no less dedicated than our male counterparts, we may not follow the traditional brown nosing the boss, fawning adoration route that many of my male colleagues aspire to, but that is in no way a reflection on my dedication.
If you wish to comment or quote ill informed sources, on another career, may I suggest you either do some reseach first or preferably engage what functioning neurones you have and keep quiet.
There is plenty of research to show that women medics, do take time off from their careers, however, they are more likely to return and that longterm retention is higher in females than males.
I will now stop my tirade before my BP shoots up even higher and I stroke out, thus expecting my male colleagues to cover my work, as I lie on ITU. Only problem is, there are none around because they have all taken a half day and are playing golf!!!
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We do need more female pilots, and more encouragement (tax / vat relief, government funding ...) for both sexes to get into this career.
And to whose benefit is it to have more Pilots of both genders entering the profession?
Please don't think I am arguing for the opportunity to enter the profession to be restricted to males only. I'm just interested in why we need more women in the cockpit when there are plenty of men who will go through hell and high water to get into the cockpit.
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When i started flying, a female friend said to me..."you dont look like a pilot". To which, i replied, in some confusion, "eh?". She told me that i was lacking the moustache, grey hair and masculine physique.
Perhaps that train of thought has something to do with the lack of women taking to the skies.
(This situation hasn't put me off though )
Lil Gal of the Skies.
Perhaps that train of thought has something to do with the lack of women taking to the skies.
(This situation hasn't put me off though
)Lil Gal of the Skies.
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tacpot a very sad post.
So if the job is dominated by men, then women should not be encouraged to take part. I a mafraid you sound like one of those sad males, who accuse women of taking their jobs.
I do not agree with positive discrimination, as I think this just gives sad people like yourself the right to say what you did. However, most females want equal rights, if I do not cut the mustard and a bloke is better than me then fine, but if my qualifications and skills are better ,then I should not be rejected due to my gender.
So if the job is dominated by men, then women should not be encouraged to take part. I a mafraid you sound like one of those sad males, who accuse women of taking their jobs.
I do not agree with positive discrimination, as I think this just gives sad people like yourself the right to say what you did. However, most females want equal rights, if I do not cut the mustard and a bloke is better than me then fine, but if my qualifications and skills are better ,then I should not be rejected due to my gender.
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My post was not a typical one, however I did want the assertion that any profession "needs" more females to be challenged.
So far as I can see, beyond any natural justice involved (and I do agree that no gender should be excluded from any profession), I can only see that devoting time, effort and money to encouraging a particular section of the community to enter a particular profession benefits only those people who actually enter the profession and the employers who need their labour. Surely to everyone else their entry to the profession is more competition.
Perhaps someone can explain why diversity in the cockpit on race, sex or any other basis (other than the natural diversity between any two human beings) is a benefit. I thought the point was that the job could be done by anyone. Ergo two white males should be able to do the job as well as two white females or two coloured females. So who does it benefit to have diversity? I'm happy to fly with anyone, but I cannot accept that I need a female in the team to even things up on a sexual basis.
I'm not worried about anyone male or female taking my job. I make a point of having skills that employers want. I am hired or fired on my own merits and on those alone.
Please can anyone answer the question?
So far as I can see, beyond any natural justice involved (and I do agree that no gender should be excluded from any profession), I can only see that devoting time, effort and money to encouraging a particular section of the community to enter a particular profession benefits only those people who actually enter the profession and the employers who need their labour. Surely to everyone else their entry to the profession is more competition.
Perhaps someone can explain why diversity in the cockpit on race, sex or any other basis (other than the natural diversity between any two human beings) is a benefit. I thought the point was that the job could be done by anyone. Ergo two white males should be able to do the job as well as two white females or two coloured females. So who does it benefit to have diversity? I'm happy to fly with anyone, but I cannot accept that I need a female in the team to even things up on a sexual basis.
I'm not worried about anyone male or female taking my job. I make a point of having skills that employers want. I am hired or fired on my own merits and on those alone.
Please can anyone answer the question?
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wow, that really lit your flame honey!
Femalesurgeon
Calm down. I almost didn’t bother to lower myself and respond, but I’m sure you are much more pleasant than you made out in that vitriolic posting.
You are very quick to insult, with little evidence to base your assessment on.
1 My uncle is well informed;
2 He doesn’t play golf: despite his seniority he’s too busy (a lack of physicians in his specialisation (paediatric cardiology), male or female);
3 He’s not at all small minded, nor bigoted;
4 He often tries to wind me up, but failed on this occasion (although succeeded with you). He was making the point that, like the profession I’m leaving, I’m about to enter a male dominated arena, where I should expect no credit just for being female;
5 I won’t defend my own intelligence, too many are questioning it as I make this career change despite being only of a very few females at my level in my field, with excellent prospects.
The discussion is about pilots, not medicine, and why females are under represented. Rather than flaming people here, you could contribute intelligently by striking a parallel with your own medical field. Despite the medical schools graduating more women than men, there are relatively few female surgeons. Why is that, and are there any parallels with commercial flying?
So stop climbing the walls and contribute something positive to this discussion.
Calm down. I almost didn’t bother to lower myself and respond, but I’m sure you are much more pleasant than you made out in that vitriolic posting.
You are very quick to insult, with little evidence to base your assessment on.
1 My uncle is well informed;
2 He doesn’t play golf: despite his seniority he’s too busy (a lack of physicians in his specialisation (paediatric cardiology), male or female);
3 He’s not at all small minded, nor bigoted;
4 He often tries to wind me up, but failed on this occasion (although succeeded with you). He was making the point that, like the profession I’m leaving, I’m about to enter a male dominated arena, where I should expect no credit just for being female;
5 I won’t defend my own intelligence, too many are questioning it as I make this career change despite being only of a very few females at my level in my field, with excellent prospects.
The discussion is about pilots, not medicine, and why females are under represented. Rather than flaming people here, you could contribute intelligently by striking a parallel with your own medical field. Despite the medical schools graduating more women than men, there are relatively few female surgeons. Why is that, and are there any parallels with commercial flying?
So stop climbing the walls and contribute something positive to this discussion.
Last edited by sally at pprune; 26th Aug 2002 at 19:55.
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The best incentive I had to learn to fly was my mother trying to stop me!
Now I'm an instructor I'd say that less than 5% of our students are female, and I think the reason is simply this, that most females simply aren't interested in it. I doubt that proportion will ever increase.
A girl who is determined to be a pilot, or any other career for that matter, isn't going to be put off by peer pressure, lack of parental support or incompetent careers advisors. She will have the dedication, will and personality to succeed, and will just get on with it. This has been the case in aviation since Amy, Amelia, Beryl and co, and still is today, and I don't think it will ever change.
In that way we are no different to the boys with the same aspirations, there are just less of us.
Now I'm an instructor I'd say that less than 5% of our students are female, and I think the reason is simply this, that most females simply aren't interested in it. I doubt that proportion will ever increase.
A girl who is determined to be a pilot, or any other career for that matter, isn't going to be put off by peer pressure, lack of parental support or incompetent careers advisors. She will have the dedication, will and personality to succeed, and will just get on with it. This has been the case in aviation since Amy, Amelia, Beryl and co, and still is today, and I don't think it will ever change.
In that way we are no different to the boys with the same aspirations, there are just less of us.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Totally agree with Charlie Foxtrot, some things appeal more to one group than another, forcing people does not help.
Sally, my response obviously lit your fire aswell.
I agree the forum is about pilots but you quoted medicine. I was just correcting your ill informed views.
YOu chose to quote female doctors lack of dedication and place it in a forum which are not aware of the facts. It does not assist female anythings when the general public believe that they only got to their position by passing inferior exams, being let through for PC correctness and that they are not as good as the blokes.
YOu only have to sit down the back of any aircraft and when a female pilots voice comes over the PA, the look on the male SLC faces is a picture, the comments they also make are exactly what your uncle implied!!!
As to your uncle, his comments are small minded and bigoted. I have heard them frequently in my career and from medics they are rarely said in jest. That he thinks that female docs expect dispensation for their gender shows how far off the mark he is.
As to why there are so few female surgeons, it takes 18-20 yrs to train a surgeon! So as far as sex equality goes we are unfortunately still in the 1980s. The last sexist medical school admission policy was not removed till 1986, so until the cycle completes about another 10 times we may not see a difference.
Ignorant comments like those your uncle make, do not make anyones job easier.
I am for equality and not positive discrimination, as that just gives men like your uncle the right to justifiable say what he did.
Sally, my response obviously lit your fire aswell.
I agree the forum is about pilots but you quoted medicine. I was just correcting your ill informed views.
YOu chose to quote female doctors lack of dedication and place it in a forum which are not aware of the facts. It does not assist female anythings when the general public believe that they only got to their position by passing inferior exams, being let through for PC correctness and that they are not as good as the blokes.
YOu only have to sit down the back of any aircraft and when a female pilots voice comes over the PA, the look on the male SLC faces is a picture, the comments they also make are exactly what your uncle implied!!!
As to your uncle, his comments are small minded and bigoted. I have heard them frequently in my career and from medics they are rarely said in jest. That he thinks that female docs expect dispensation for their gender shows how far off the mark he is.
As to why there are so few female surgeons, it takes 18-20 yrs to train a surgeon! So as far as sex equality goes we are unfortunately still in the 1980s. The last sexist medical school admission policy was not removed till 1986, so until the cycle completes about another 10 times we may not see a difference.
Ignorant comments like those your uncle make, do not make anyones job easier.
I am for equality and not positive discrimination, as that just gives men like your uncle the right to justifiable say what he did.