pancho

I refer to Thomas Cook Airlines, " I am only Cabin Crew", what a sad statement this is. In my career as a Professional Aviator "only Cabin Crew" were an essential part of my team. So, please TCA, dont put yourself down because of the comments of a few pilots lost in the depths of their own egos.

Deeko01

I must say I am astonished by the people demanding something should be done, I have a better idea how bout we charge for use of PPRune and let these guys get some return for all there hard work time and effort they have put in over the years.

I say to the powers of prune that I love this site and wouldnt be without it as it is so informative and would suggest to the people who aint happy with the site either be willing to pay for it or go look at another BB?? its your choice YOU DECIDE!!

gofer

I love flying, and yet I also hate spending roughly 800 hours a year as SLF, as you, tongue in something, refer to those of us who end up causing your wages to able to be paid.

My grandfather, a doctor, joind the RAF in the first months of its creation and stayed a lifetime. My father, an areonautical engineer, was in the Polish Airforce and then the RAF for much of the character forming years of his life. My godfather was a Polish and RAF fighter pilot who was one of the few of his friends to survive WWII, and flew professionally till the year he died @ 75. My uncle was a commercial pilot for 30+ years, My daughter is a Senior F/A flying for 10years+, My son-in-law is an F/O with only around 2000 hours so far.

Having been posted abroad with a little free time at odd hours and a broadband PC, I found when surfing around, to my delight, PPRuNe. Some of you have been kind enough to invite me into your mobile offices, and we've seen some lovely Aurora B's and comets and countryside thanks to you. Some of you have become well respected friends. Some of the opinions I rate very highly, and for some of you I probably do manage to write some drivel also, at least in your eyes (not sure if being sober helps or not).

And you want to condemn me to not play - shame on you !

I'm also a computer geek and can confirm the 'PPRuNe Towers' comments. So what is the solution ???? - a fee sometimes can keep the riff-raff out - and yes I have to agree with some of your previous comments that there are some things that if not posted would improve the forum. But some of that was posted by 'Professional pilots'; so there is obviously no logic or rule as to who has common sense and stupidity.

Now also remember Danny and the guys do this out of the kindness of their hearts and you get it for free and then you b*tch. Nobody said your have to PPRuNe, there are many other sites, some are even OK, none are this good, even though it has changed and is permanently changing - So my suggestion would be -- how's about having a 'writing fee' ?

You pay the fee - you can write, don't pay - can't write !

Oh yes, who is going to do the added admin, well it could help to pay for staff, or it could be part of the rules that those who want to play but not pay, have to volonteer for that bl**dy Admin.

Danny you can count me in for both a reasonable fee and some admin, if that is your final decision - and thanks for a really great forum, whatever some say.

Wino

Mastergreen

2 such places already exist.

They are both compuserve forums. One is Avsig.com which was the grandfather of this place and still exists. It is by name only, no handles etc and is still a good site, but they charged a fee (very small 10 dollars or so a year) and it drove traffic way down. INfact that is the main reason I came over here.

The other place is for Airline pilots only and is also within the compuserve orbit, but it has declined in favor of ALPA's in house message board. There is no fee for this board, you must simply prove you work for an airlne (someone will look up your employee number etc and verify it) Ask for the name on AVSIG and they will point you (you can do it from the free section of AVSIG) to the link as I don't have it on this machine but its something like Go.Compuserve.fltcrew.com.

Cheers
Wino

Lodestar

Hi there,


I believe that there actually is a need for a forum where only 'professional' pilots would be allowed.

Why could this not be allowed under a form like the company related topics on PprUne, based on a licence copy. That way PPrUne could remain existant in its actual form hereby providing a forum for pro-pilots to discuss mathers that are rather 'touchy' , too technical etc.....

It is true that now we see a lot of B*****T here that can be very harmfull as well.

I am pro a forum like that.....!

But lets not forget the aviation enthousiasts here who deserve as well to receive realy valuable opinions....

Thanks!

Arkroyal

Well, Lodestar, and others, the world's your oyster. You want such a thing, go set it up.

The very fact that some folk spout nonsense here, and are either ignored, or put right, is all part of the colour of the site.

Leave it alone, Danny.

con-pilot

Ok, my two cents (and that’s all my opinion is worth trust me).

I have stated my view many times in different forums and have not changed my views. And I’m sure to Danny’s great relief I am not going to restate them at this time. But to say don’t change nothing!

As for the ‘professional pilots only’ crowd; start your own web-site.

Sandy_Charmer

My vote is AGAINST restricting PPRuNe to flyers only.

I agree with MasterGreen and FOUR REDS that there are many crazy, uninformed and xenophobic comments made by both flyers and non-flyers on this board. I guess it’s the price paid of success when sites like these become popular for all the right reasons but inevitably attract many of the wrong people to pass their comment. But at the end of the day they’re only passing comments, which can be ignored.

I must admit I am very new to the board and being ‘just another analyst!’ I wouldn’t know what PPRuNe used to be like in the early days. But having worked for one of the big three engine manufactures and now working with one of the big two airframers I feel I can learn a lot from PPRune as well as contribute.

Remember most of us are fortunate enough to live in societies where freedom of speech still does exist.

Let’s keep PPRuNe accessible!

GlueBall

A password protected "professionals only" site would be lacking in entertainment value. Besides, anyone who is at least semi literate can easily separate gobbledegook from Shakespeare.

747FOCAL

After reading all of the posts from this thread I have only one question:

Do the majority of pilots that are members of this forum truly feel that only certified pilots bring merit and valuable insight into the topics discussed on PPRUNE?

I am not a certified pilot. I am an engineer. When I am designing a product or am solving a problem I reach out to affected individuals(ie. pilots, mechanics, ground handlers). I have also used information gained from this forum. When I take on a project my hope is that the end result will benefit the avaition world, even if only on a small level.

I have found that the only way to accomplish the expected results is to gain insight from those that touch it and that means everybody. Yes, you get the occasional idiot. How hard is it to ignore this person?

It used to be that when you had 11 people sitting around a table talking there would always be the one idiot that keeps blurting out eroneous and worthless banter. The 10 smart ones would let him say his piece and then continue on without even acknowledging it. Nowdays, you got 10 idiots and one smart person.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we around here at PPRUNE know who the smart ones are and as aviation professionals should be smart enough to spot an idiot and disregard his posts without getting wound up about it.

Danny and the rest have enough to do and we should be thankful that they do that.

bodstrup

Things are not always what they appear to be.

One of the most criticised persons recently was Seriph (in the Mid-Air thread). He was told he was a FS2000 pilot etc - but then the moderator intervened and informed that he was acutally a line captain..

One easy way to limit access would be to require a check-mark in an ATPL/CPL box in the registration form.

Most of us 'armchair idiots' - would never falsely state that we had a license.

A few would slip through but 90+ % of the non pilots would stay away.

Such an approach would require no screening or maintenance

I have posted a few comments/questions too many and understand the problem.

Regards
Michael

interestedparty

As a new member I have taken particular regard to the warning comments about people taking reciprocal positions to those they actually hold & etc, which is displayed at the end of the Forum listing page.
Be that as it may, I am surprised at the level of apparently immoderate comment I find in the forums on the site.
Aviation is a stressy business, with a similar work profile to many other professionals' lives. Long irregular hours, periods of intense activity, followed by periods of relative calm, managements who fail to comprehend the pressures a professional person feels him or herself under, & etc.
However I suspect that aviation has the unique benefit of strong regulation, which in the hands of most administrations at least, forms some sort of restraining hand.
Without exception the air-transport professionals I know are an exceptionally level-headed, calm, and resourceful group.
I suspect that some users confuse the need for a romper-room with the orginal intention of the site. Letting off steam is best kept for the sports' field, bar, or bedroom.
Please to try to keep the forums open to all, flyguys or no, to the benefit of the general public of whom you are indeed part.

Notso Fantastic

I have found it extremely disappointing to see the many contributions made to this forum by what I consider to be idiots masquerading as 'Professional Pilots' and advocating opinions that really shouldn't be made here. They carry the same weight as Professional Pilot opinions. Look at the title of the Forum! Recently, we have had an engineer advocating early retirement of pilots to give 'the younger ones a chance', non qualified people firing off 'shoot from the hip' opinions such as Crash-and Burn, people with weird opinions like Bus429 ('the Pilot's friend!'-who most decidedly is not), our long recent travails with that laughing stock of humanity- 'the Guvnor'. I would say it would be nice to know whose voice counted. Thank heavens we have some very tightly policed private forums- it is the only way to keep loudmouth idiots away from some areas. Ask people to respect HOW to use Pprune and these are the self-same people who abuse you for pointing out they are in the wrong forum.

I would not dream of going into other professional forum areas and loudly proclaiming my opinions on the employment practices of engineers, architects or accountants, but why do so many ignoramuses insist on coming here and passing opinions on pilot retirement and aircraft accidents and everything else to do with aviation? Reasonable discussion is very acceptable- it is only the loudmouth, uninformed opinion broadcasters who are a right PITA!

Chalky

Personally I don't think it matters whether a member has a licence or not, provided that they have an interest in aviation, a reasoned argument to put forward and aren't talking out of their a**e.

How about having a small aviation-orientated questionnaire inserted into the registration process? This might sieve out the more ignorant journo's and the complete Wallys, though sadly 411A and his ilk would probably still get through.

Chalky

Sir Kitt Braker

There's only one thing wrong with this forum - that half the contributors take themselves, their postings and this forum far too seriously!

This is not an OFFICIAL SITE, it's not the CAA, no great pronouncements on aviation, aeroplanes or how to fly come through here!

This is meant to be a fun place to read and post, to start pleasantly mischievous rumours, to have the odd dig at our bosses and our customers and ourselves. This last item is, of course, beyond the ability of most of us who seem to think that sainthood and deific status in all matters is bestowed on us at the same time as our wings.

This only ever happened in the case of one pilot that I know - but that's enough about me.....

interestedparty

I'd agree with our friend from St. Kitts - (nice island, and a long runway too).
The problem is the dividing line between jokiness and immoderation.............
There should be a light-hearted way of putting over hard facts; that's the essence of a civilised discussion.

daywalker

Well, one thing for sure is that I am no pilot

I do however enjoy reading all your posts & find it easy to ignore the stupid/ignorant posts, do you all find it so hard to ignore such posts? It's an easy option.

Captain Airclues

Prior to 9/11, one of the pleasures of the job was meeting the rich variety of people who used to visit the flight deck. Some were just curious, but some, although not pilots, had a keen interest in aviation. I learned a great deal from the engineers, ATCOs and ground staff who used to sit and chat about their jobs. The most satisfying were the wannabes, as their enthusiasm was infectious, and I never tired of their questions.
Occationally we would get the 'Walter Mitty' character who felt that he had to lie about his qualifications to impress us. It would have been so easy to expose them, but what would that have achieved? (after all he was helping to pay my salary). I would just listen politely to his exploits and then wish him well as he went on his way.
Sadly, but quite rightly, those days are no more. However we have a substitute in these forums where we can talk with people from all walks of life about the profession that we love. I regularly visit all of the forums, including wannabes and SLF, and am constantly learning something new from all of them.
The same type of 'Walter Mitty' who used to visit the flight deck also visits these forums. Unless they are insulting or critical, as was the case recently, then I suggest that we just skip on to the next post and ignore them.
Believe it or not, it is possible to have a successful career in aviation without ever being rude, insulting or critical.
Just as the SLF have to trust the captain and crew to fly the aircraft safely, I think that we must trust Capt PPRuNe and his team to run this website.
Keep up the good work sir, and please don't change it.

Airclues

18-Wheeler

All this is why, on the motoring forums I frequent, I started my own forum that was invitation-only.
I added some HTML coding so the search engines would ignore it, so the invited people could post whatever they liked and not have to worry about the w.ankers butting in.

arcniz

The cockpit is one of few places in life where stupidity, ignorance, maliciousness and pettiness have little standing. Where skill, focus, and realism are prized above all.

It is a place where you can be awed to tears or frightened to the depths of your soul without a single commemorative word being spoken.

Sitting up front makes you master of the universe for yourself and the others aboard, yet it is also a place of terrible personal insecurity - where everything from blood-sugar to macroeconomics and many, many things inbetween can threaten your career, family life, and peace of mind. For these, more than the flying part, courage is as necessary as air.

When most in your element you mainly work in personal isolation, connected to others -near and far - by wires and radio and rules and machines that broach little comment or open discussion.

Small wonder that the proud few who participate in this would like to share a private island of communication with their fellows, free from the noise of the bleachers, on which to speak about things otherwise unsaid.

Possibly it is unwise to do this in public, or in any medium where everything said is going to be recorded and remembered forever. Perhaps better at a noisy place of liquid refreshment, in the company of known friends...


On the other hand,

Being able to do what you do depends - each time the sun rises - on the collaboration and cooperation and the actual good will of hundreds of thousands of others who keep the machinery of aviation oiled, who sell the tickets, who ride along, who sweep the ground and sky to clear a safe path ahead of you.

Collectively, those many outside the cockpit may have more say in your future than the few inside. Even people far away in time and social function - politicians, engineers, reedy-voiced teenagers at their desks - will interact together to determine the future of your company, your job, and thus your life in aviation.

There may be more information than you would like in the things you don't want to hear. The thump-thump noises coming from people with contrary or clearly wrong views are information that should not be casually ignored. Whether they are right or wrong, they are reaching an audience and influencing them in ways that will affect you - so better to listen, try to help with facts, and then argue a responsible POV of your own in the public forum. Mixed in among the frustrated accountants and still-quite-young enthusiasts might be an astronaut or a banker or a bicycle mechanic who could do you - and all of aviation - some good, if so inclined.


& Good For You, Danny et al - this is quite a thing you've created