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Virgin Atlantic

Old 14th Jul 2020, 17:38
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I would suggest that small part of the message MAY be floored, but the rest remains solid.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 18:22
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GKOC - I gather Virgin Atlantic is trying to keep hold of all their B787 and A350 pilots and dump as many of the others (747 and A330) as they can get away with, using a legally questionable de-merit matrix. However a number of 787 and A350 pilots may have been put on some kind of furlough which is apparently why these 'temporary and unforeseen' shortages have occurred.

All according to a couple of tame but somewhat disaffected VS A330 pilots in our village, who had had a couple of beers or two when this was being discussed and thought they were rather poorly placed. One thinks he is going to lose his command, the other, his job.

I don't think there are many 787s still 'AOG for engines' anywhere, though apparently there are some additional Rolls Royce 'mitigations' still working their way through the system.

Stormin' - My understanding is that 'pax aircraft being used as freighters' originated with bringing vast quantities of PPE (in manually-loaded seat-bags and cardboard boxes) from Asia, which the folks thought was going straight to save the NHS. That may be the case now, but it was certainly not at the time of Robert Jenrick's 84 tonnes of whimpering Turkish Delight in mid-April.

...
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 12:48
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Looks like the UK CAA are calling time on Virgin Atlantic not coughing up refunds. Let's face it they're not the only ones who've been at this, I reckon nearly all airlines have been practicing holding the money.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53595739
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 14:14
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As a ďcompare and contrastď, we had a BA Holidays booking to Antigua for next month.
27 Jul ... ANU flight cancelled (major l/h rescheduling)
28 Jul ... BA Hols email saying they would be refunding total cost (flights + hotel) but might take a week or so due to demand.
29 Jul ... My Amex account credited with the full refund.

If the much-criticised BA and its creaky IT setup can achieve that, I have zero sympathy for VS.
BTW, thatís our 3rd painless and swift BA cancellation refund since C-19 kicked off.
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 15:40
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Originally Posted by stormin norman View Post
Not a lot of high value freight goes through a passenger door .A fully loaded passenger aircraft with cabin freight might just break even.
But I guess that currently most airlines would settle for "break even".
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Old 1st Aug 2020, 16:53
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Jet2 refund back In account within 48hours of the holiday being cancelled.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 01:53
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If the refund fiasco is true, then it sounds like financially, there looking into the abyss.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 09:09
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Lufthansa told me up to three months to refund when they cancelled my FRA-DMM flight in early March. Got fed up by mid-June and did a credit card chargeback so the money was back in my account within 48 hours.

My parents had to resort to chargebacks to get a refund from EZY who charged them again IN FULL for rescheduling their cancelled flights and were impossible to contact about refunding the original fares. Very poor show.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 09:38
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Still no sign of 2019 Accounts.
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 13:07
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Deal not complete yet and cash reserves running low.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ember-collapse
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 19:40
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Reports of a bankruptcy filing in New York.

Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic is the second Virgin airline to declare bankruptcy as pandemic rips apart the industryDavid Slotnick
37 minutes ago
  • Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic airline filed for Chapter 15 bankruptcy in New York on Tuesday.
  • The airline, which only flies long-haul international routes, suspended passenger flights in April due to the coronavirus pandemic. It resumed flying passengers in July, despite little demand for international travel.
  • The airline, which is 49% owned by Delta, has cut more than 3,000 jobs, retired some planes, and closed bases to cut costs during the pandemic.
https://www.businessinsider.com/virg...andemic-2020-8



More on Chapter 15 bankruptcy for the sea lawyers here:

https://www.uscourts.gov/services-fo...kruptcy-basics

Last edited by Airbubba; 4th Aug 2020 at 20:07.
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 20:11
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Business as usual

Hopefully this is just precautionary but at TCX we were told it was business as usual and perfectly normal when they did this 2 weeks before they went into administration.
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 20:14
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From my past experience at Pan Am and other places 'business as usual' = 'the end is near'.

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Old 4th Aug 2020, 21:52
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I just cannot see a way out of this for Virgin Atlantic. Heavily weighted on the North American market coupled with long haul only operations and a worsening global pandemic crisis. Who's going to book seats now this news is out, very sad times indeed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ankruptcy.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...uptcy-22470022
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 22:03
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Letís hope your wrong Count. Save the crocodile tears.
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 22:30
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Sorry to rain on your parade Count, I know how happy Virginís demise would make you, but Chapter 15 means bankruptcy protection, and this is all part of the recapitalisation announced a few weeks ago. We are in very stormy water at the moment, but we can and will weather it!



Virgin Atlantic Files Chapter 15 Petition to Aid U.K. Rescue
By Josh Sauland, Claire Boston Bloomberg
August 4, 2020, 8:22 PM GMT+1 Updated on August 4, 2020, 9:12 PM GMT+1

Richard Bransonís airline works on a consensual restructuring
The company faces a cash crunch if it canít get approval




Richard Bransonís Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd. filed for Chapter 15 bankruptcy protection in the U.S. on Tuesday after telling a London court it was set to run out of cash next month if a pending rescue deal isnít approved.

The airline filed its petition in the Southern District of New York. Chapter 15 allows foreign companies with U.S. assets to protect themselves against claims while they work on a turnaround plan at home.

The company had said during proceedings in the U.K. that it planned to apply for the U.S. protection while it finalizes a rescue plan thatís already supported by a majority of its stakeholders. Virgin is seeking to secure a a 1.2 billion-pound ($1.6 billion) rescue, which was announced in July.

Read more: Virgin Atlantic Seeks Rescue Approval as Cash Running Out

Airlines are under pressure as travelers shun flights to avoid exposure to the coronavirus. At least four U.S. regional airlines have gone bankrupt, and revenue at carriers with vast international networks could see sales plunge 66% this year, according to a Bloomberg Intelligence report.

Since Jan. 1, Virginís reservations are down 89% year-over-year and demand for the second half of 2020 is at approximately 25% of 2019 levels, according to court papers.

ďThe group and its business have been adversely affected by the ongoing Covid-19 pandemic, which has caused an unprecedented near-shutdown of the global passenger aviation industry,Ē according to the court papers. ďGlobal aviation was one of the first industries to be impacted by the Covid-19 pandemic and is likely to be one of the last to fully recover.Ē

Virginís restructuring plan in the U.K. depends on the approval of its Chapter 15 filing in the U.S., the company said in its court filing. Without the plan, thereís uncertainty as to whether Virgin could get enough creditor support to implement its restructuring in time to avoid going into formal insolvency proceedings, according to the filing.

ďBecause VAAL has material assets and operations in the United States, the recognition of the English proceeding and enforcement of the sanction order and the plan through Chapter 15 of the bankruptcy code are necessary to ensure that the plan is effective and binding,Ē the filing states.
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 23:09
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UK Media is splashing big tonight on Virgin being bankrupt, with a small print caveat. With their core US market closed from April and no sign of the US opening up meaningfully for the forseeable future and with no summer to bank and the toughest trading winter on the North Atlantic in living memory approaching..... Even the mighty IAG are burning cash at a now alarming rate and with a B787 and A350 fleet to keep paying leases on, any restructuring will have to be extensive. There’s 3 new A350s at Toulouse for VS that they now have no need for at all.

Last edited by Skipness One Foxtrot; 4th Aug 2020 at 23:55.
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Old 5th Aug 2020, 02:47
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In 1987, as a fresh faced youngster at BA, I would have been delighted to read this. Thirty three years later, older and a lot wiser, this breaks my heart. Genuinely wishing everyone involved all the very best. I have a huge respect for everything you’ve accomplished.
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Old 5th Aug 2020, 03:02
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Seriously sloppy journalism seeking blood in a story when if they read the court procedures properly they might understand. but that doesn’t sell newspapers does it?
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Old 5th Aug 2020, 04:08
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Poor journalism everywhere

Ridiculous that a lot of ‘news’ outlets are saying Virgin Atlantic filing for bankruptcy. Clearly no understanding of the court procedures to help them reorganise in preparation for restructuring and refinancing.
However, Virgin Atlantic need to make as much use of social media and their PR machine as possible, before this inaccurate reporting snowballs out of control.
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