View Poll Results: IN a 7 day period, how many duty hours can you work ?
55
31
41.33%
60
19
25.33%
65
11
14.67%
or does your company have a special deal with the licencing authorities ?
14
18.67%
Voters: 75. This poll is closed
Duty Hours Poll
Duty Hours Poll
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: New Forest
Our company scheme has 55 hours normally but 60 hours when rostered to cover a series of duties and up to 75 hours, when one includes the standby duty above the 55/60 hour limit.
Hence my vote had to be "... arranged with licensing authority"
Hence my vote had to be "... arranged with licensing authority"
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 38
Likes: 4
From: Bed
Cumulative Duty Hours
The maximum duty hours for flight crew will not exceed:
55 hrs in 1 week but this figure may be increased to 60 hrs when a rostered duty covering a series of duty periods has commenced & is subject to unforeseen delays 95 hrs in 2 consecutive weeks & 190 hrs in any 4 consecutive weeks.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that's up to 95 hrs in 7 consecutive days, if the rostering department get their sums right!
When will the CAA change the term 'week' for '7 consecutive days'?
The maximum duty hours for flight crew will not exceed:
55 hrs in 1 week but this figure may be increased to 60 hrs when a rostered duty covering a series of duty periods has commenced & is subject to unforeseen delays 95 hrs in 2 consecutive weeks & 190 hrs in any 4 consecutive weeks.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that's up to 95 hrs in 7 consecutive days, if the rostering department get their sums right!
When will the CAA change the term 'week' for '7 consecutive days'?
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,563
Likes: 35
From: I wouldn't know.
In our company it's 55 hours duty, thats not flight-duty or block hours, in seven consecutive days. They are not allowed to roster more. For every sick- or vacation-day the allowed dutytime is reduced by nine hours.
Man of the Marsh
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: LGW
Knold, yes, it includes all hours spent "on duty" from report time (60/75 mins) and 30 mins after "check out", as you say. Without listing all the possibilities and variations, basically, Standby, positioning before and after flight, and Sim, all count as duty time towards a max of 55 (60 as above) here in UK. This is increased for Cabin Crew to 60 (65), bearing in mind that their report in/out time can be up to 30 mins before Flight Deck and 15 mins after.
I wonder if you, or a fellow Scandi, would be kind enough to explain your points system. I am sure many of us would be interested in understanding how this works.
I wonder if you, or a fellow Scandi, would be kind enough to explain your points system. I am sure many of us would be interested in understanding how this works.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
From: the watch list
DrSyn
Of course,
Duty is normally 1 hour before (minimum 30min) and 30 min after although the check-out time is not included when calculating duty limit, since it's "post flight".
Ok, so 1 hour between 0600-2200 LT gives you 6 pts (not pesetas
) and duty between 2200-0600LT gives you 8 pts.
Each landing gives you an extra 5 pts. (first two landings do not count for C/A)
Normal duty limit is 90 pts. If the commander and the rest of the crew all agree, another 18 points may be used (reson being slot/enroute dely etc.).
To rid yourself from these horrible points you can either use TJ point-schampo (little joke there) or you can rest them down by deducting 6 pts an hour between 06-22 and 8 pts between 22-06. I.e you get/lose more points during night.
More (complicated) rules apply for stand-by duty / rest onboard / ground transport and so on.
The problem with this system appears when doing a night flight, that you earn 8 pts an hour for, exceedes 0600hrs besauce then, according to the system, you are only 6 pts worth tierd.
As you might see we don't have many freight airlines up here.
I hope you get the picture...
Duty is normally 1 hour before (minimum 30min) and 30 min after although the check-out time is not included when calculating duty limit, since it's "post flight".
Ok, so 1 hour between 0600-2200 LT gives you 6 pts (not pesetas
) and duty between 2200-0600LT gives you 8 pts. Each landing gives you an extra 5 pts. (first two landings do not count for C/A)
Normal duty limit is 90 pts. If the commander and the rest of the crew all agree, another 18 points may be used (reson being slot/enroute dely etc.).
To rid yourself from these horrible points you can either use TJ point-schampo (little joke there) or you can rest them down by deducting 6 pts an hour between 06-22 and 8 pts between 22-06. I.e you get/lose more points during night.
More (complicated) rules apply for stand-by duty / rest onboard / ground transport and so on.
The problem with this system appears when doing a night flight, that you earn 8 pts an hour for, exceedes 0600hrs besauce then, according to the system, you are only 6 pts worth tierd.
As you might see we don't have many freight airlines up here.
I hope you get the picture...
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: www.madriverglen.com
16 Hours (15) US FAR 121 Duty Time
As a note of explanation of Willit Run's post of 96 hours a week......
Under US FAR's a large loophole was recently closed with a decision by the District of Columbia Appeals Court.
FAR 121.471 covering airline Flight Time/Duty Time is as convoluted a piece of Federal Jurisdiction as there ever will be....
This regulation, implemented in the mid '80s states that no crewmember shall complete a flight assignment without being able to 'look back' 24 hours and within that 24 hour period see a minimum of 9 hours of rest, permissably reduced to 8 if a longer rest period is given following.
Problem was that since the '80s the FAA had allowed the airlines to get away with scheduling to these stipulations only and if weather, mechanical, operational, delays ensued, NO PROBLEM!!
Keep 'em on duty for as long as they wanted and to get the airplane back to the "Hub" lest the next day's operations not be able to support the Hub and Spoke philosophy prevalent after the US ADA (Airline Deregulation Act)
On November 20, 2000, after many inquiries from American Ailines Allied Pilots Association (APA) and US ALPA a James Whitlow, Deputy Counsel for the FAA, issued an opinion and order letter (the "Whitlow Letter") stating the above FAR would be strictly enforced.
I was in the unfortunate wrong place at the wrong time and on January 3, 2001, was fired, terminated, canned, on the phone for following the above guidelines.
My employer flagrantly informed me as the situation developed that "we do not recognize the FAA's interpretation of FAR 121.471!!!!"
I had been delayed for hours and could not see the wisdom of willingly violating the Reg and hence declined to continue my flight.
The US Railway Labor Act covers airline Collective Bargaining, affording a 'System Board of Adjustment' for one's hearing, all presided over by Federally appointed arbitrators, usually lawyers or respected aviators, labor spokesman with many years experience resolving such disputes. The man in charge in my case was a Professor of Labor Law at a large State University.
US ALPA has spent hundreds of thousands on legal fees for my case and has won at every turn. My former airline refuses to reinstate me as they cannot admit that they were in error. They are legally appealing as high as they can go. All this takes years and and years.
The Air Tranport Association (ATA) sued the FAA after the Whitlow Letter was issued and was completely overturned by three judges of the DC Appeals Court on May 31, 2002.
Hence, now we may be kept on duty for 15 hours (16 hours in some circumstances) for 6 days straight for a total of well over 90 hours a week!!
But believe it or not, this is a large improvement over that which existed before.
Chances are that you have only heard what the major airline pilots such as United, American, Delta, etc., etc. are subject to.
ALPA has negoatiated very favorable contracts at those carriers wherebv no duty period is ever anyway near the maximum, particularly after 9:00 PM and later.
Lastly, the above only applies to Domestic Regulations and what we name Flag and Supplemental (Charter) is not covered by this Regulation; unlimited time on duty can prevail!!!
Under US FAR's a large loophole was recently closed with a decision by the District of Columbia Appeals Court.
FAR 121.471 covering airline Flight Time/Duty Time is as convoluted a piece of Federal Jurisdiction as there ever will be....
This regulation, implemented in the mid '80s states that no crewmember shall complete a flight assignment without being able to 'look back' 24 hours and within that 24 hour period see a minimum of 9 hours of rest, permissably reduced to 8 if a longer rest period is given following.
Problem was that since the '80s the FAA had allowed the airlines to get away with scheduling to these stipulations only and if weather, mechanical, operational, delays ensued, NO PROBLEM!!
Keep 'em on duty for as long as they wanted and to get the airplane back to the "Hub" lest the next day's operations not be able to support the Hub and Spoke philosophy prevalent after the US ADA (Airline Deregulation Act)
On November 20, 2000, after many inquiries from American Ailines Allied Pilots Association (APA) and US ALPA a James Whitlow, Deputy Counsel for the FAA, issued an opinion and order letter (the "Whitlow Letter") stating the above FAR would be strictly enforced.
I was in the unfortunate wrong place at the wrong time and on January 3, 2001, was fired, terminated, canned, on the phone for following the above guidelines.
My employer flagrantly informed me as the situation developed that "we do not recognize the FAA's interpretation of FAR 121.471!!!!"
I had been delayed for hours and could not see the wisdom of willingly violating the Reg and hence declined to continue my flight.
The US Railway Labor Act covers airline Collective Bargaining, affording a 'System Board of Adjustment' for one's hearing, all presided over by Federally appointed arbitrators, usually lawyers or respected aviators, labor spokesman with many years experience resolving such disputes. The man in charge in my case was a Professor of Labor Law at a large State University.
US ALPA has spent hundreds of thousands on legal fees for my case and has won at every turn. My former airline refuses to reinstate me as they cannot admit that they were in error. They are legally appealing as high as they can go. All this takes years and and years.
The Air Tranport Association (ATA) sued the FAA after the Whitlow Letter was issued and was completely overturned by three judges of the DC Appeals Court on May 31, 2002.
Hence, now we may be kept on duty for 15 hours (16 hours in some circumstances) for 6 days straight for a total of well over 90 hours a week!!
But believe it or not, this is a large improvement over that which existed before.
Chances are that you have only heard what the major airline pilots such as United, American, Delta, etc., etc. are subject to.
ALPA has negoatiated very favorable contracts at those carriers wherebv no duty period is ever anyway near the maximum, particularly after 9:00 PM and later.
Lastly, the above only applies to Domestic Regulations and what we name Flag and Supplemental (Charter) is not covered by this Regulation; unlimited time on duty can prevail!!!
Last edited by DeeTeeS; 4th September 2002 at 01:24.
duty hours
